Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#91

Post by skinkestek » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 10:38 AM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #78

ALittleLight wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not "go back to" some era, but roll back the militarization of the police for the present/future era. A ban on guns wouldn't change anything. There are many countries that are much more violent with much more violent police and bans on guns. Other countries have high gun ownership and low crime and low police violence.

> Other countries have high gun ownership and low crime and low police violence. I.e. "la comparaison suisse" It doesn't really hold up. Switzerland has a very low crime rate, but also has one of the highest gun violence rates in Europe (most are suicides).

Around here lots of guns were removed from the equation 10 - 20 years ago and I haven't heard about a corresponding decrease in suicides.

As far as I can see guns doesn't trigger suicides.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#92

Post by yetihehe » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 10:41 AM UTC

Leparamour wrote: post #36

yetihehe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He says where violence comes from. It's not justifying violence, it's saying why it exists and what area should be looked in for solution.

>He says where violence comes from. They do not in fact. They insinuate that police is arresting blacks as a modern sequel to slavery. That's a complete reversal of cause and effect. Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority. There's a reason the 13/50 trope exists for blacks and not for Asians.

> Blacks are disproportionally targeted because they're committing criminal acts at disproportionally higher levels compared to every other "marginalized" minority.

I agree, but just because blacks commit more crimes, it is NOT valid to harass innocent blacks. When you harass innocent blacks, you have more resentment from general populace. It is easy to see all blacks as criminals when all you see every day are black criminals, because you are a cop in black criminal neighbourhood, but such stances will make all black people hate police. It's not "EITHER blacks are disproportionally targetted OR blacks commit more crimes". It's both and it makes for vicious cycle of violence. Someone has to stop it. Because police doesn't or can't stop it, blacks are trying to do what they can, which is to protest. Then when people protest and no one listens, they are too angry (too many various reasons to specify), they resort to violence and you have riots.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#93

Post by egberts » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 10:45 AM UTC

shakna wrote: post #60

mike_d wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use Firefox with Total Cookie Protection (each domain you visit gets an isolated cookie jar) and set the "Delete cookies and site data when Firefox is closed" option. You are now free to carelessly click on and accept any random cookie that comes your way. Just restart once a week or so for Firefox updates and you are a completely new person.

Your fingerprint islikely to persist between that. Just your graphics driver and fonts is enough that deleting those cookies did exactly nothing - and that's not any of the advanced tracking techniques.

^THIS^

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#94

Post by the_why_of_y » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

GaryTang wrote: post #73

elygre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand what you mean by “accusations of being traitors from the right”. However, I was unaware of “BLM hostility on the left”. Could you share some more information about this?

A multitude more deaths caused by BLM protests. It wasn’t the rosy portrayal the TV showed you. And many people are still living in fear, not knowing when a BLM protest might come burn down their home.

Here is what we have found based on the 7,305 events we’ve collected. The overall levels of violence and property destruction were low, and most of the violence that did take place was, in fact, directed against the BLM protesters.
First, police made arrests in 5% of the protest events, with over 8,500 reported arrests (or possibly more). Police used tear gas or related chemical substances in 2.5% of these events.
Protesters or bystanders were reported injured in 1.6 percent of the protests. In total, at least three Black Lives Matter protesters and one other person were killed while protesting in Omaha, Austin and Kenosha, Wis. One anti-fascist protester killed a far-right group member during a confrontation in Portland, Ore.; law enforcement killed the alleged assailant several days later.
Police were reported injured in 1% of the protests. A law enforcement officer killed in California was allegedly shot by supporters of the far-right “boogaloo” movement, not anti-racism protesters.
The killings in the line of duty of other law enforcement officers during this period were not related to the protests.
Only 3.7% of the protests involved property damage or vandalism. Some portion of these involved neither police nor protesters, but people engaging in vandalism or looting alongside the protests.
In short, our data suggest that 96.3% of events involved no property damage or police injuries, and in 97.7% of events, no injuries were reported among participants, bystanders or police.
These figures should correct the narrative that the protests were overtaken by rioting and vandalism or violence.
Such claims are false. Incidents in which there was protester violence or property destruction should be regarded as exceptional – and not representative of the uprising as a whole.

In many instances, police reportedly began or escalated the violence, but some observers nevertheless blame the protesters.

https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news-and-ideas/black-lives...

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#95

Post by hef19898 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

_y5hn wrote: post #46

ALittleLight wrote: post #27

From a little light Googling I don't see that any police officers connected to the 100+ nights of rioting and protests in Portland killed themselves. Why would one event result in so many suicides while the other didn't?

Because of the treason of storming a democratic process, and then lying about it? It makes you question who you're working for, when half of politicians are behaving in such shameful manner without reprecussions and justice. These police officers were physically assaulted and had no way of knowing wether they'd come out of it alive or dead. Some people were even searching for politicians to murder, and officers had n…

Yes, January 6th is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. And we all know that that was only the beginning of Hitler's political career. Not sure if that is the right comparison, history is not repeating itself in that way. But having a failed, rather embarrassingly, coup attempt is no guarantee there won't be another one. Or a power grab abusing existing, legitimate democratic processes. The first time the NSDAP won was through a fully legitimate election. First order of the day was a new election that was everything but democratic, so.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#96

Post by rorykoehler » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

exo-pla-net wrote: post #2

These officers faced BLM hostility on the left, as well as violence against them and accusations of being traitors from the right. The public that they're supposed to serve was spitting on them and demonizing them from both sides. Add a pandemic to the mix, and anybody's mental health would be flatlining. Suicide among some of them is tragic but not surprising. I don't know how effective counseling services are, but…

It pretty obvious police protect capital not people. Sure many of the police officers didn't realise this until it was too late and they had committed but I think that would have a bigger detriment on their mental health than being vilified by fringe groups.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#97

Post by netizen-936824 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #77

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug tests should be banned for most folks. Additionally: What is a trace amount after a weekend? Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday?

> Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? I don't really know. I thought there would be difference in concentration. > Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Mushrooms are not a hard drug. Fentanyl/heroine and crack are. > Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday? IMHO the…

There is no such thing as a "hard" or "heavy" drug. These terms are not in pharmacological literature and are not defined by any property of the chemical or their pharmacological action.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#98

Post by yy776yyhhh » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #9

exo-pla-net wrote: post #2

These officers faced BLM hostility on the left, as well as violence against them and accusations of being traitors from the right. The public that they're supposed to serve was spitting on them and demonizing them from both sides. Add a pandemic to the mix, and anybody's mental health would be flatlining. Suicide among some of them is tragic but not surprising. I don't know how effective counseling services are, but…

Some communities have also been disproportionately persecuted by the police for, a very long time. Maybe it's a legacy of slavery and later segregation. Maybe it's a lack of unifying national spirit (the melting pot of cultural assimilation and a desire to be a small spice in a greater whole) which might have just been wishful thinking on the part of history book authors. I suspect most of the non-anarchist who feel…

It's really weird to automatically assume the community's feelings are justified when most violence faced by black people is from other black people. It seems a lot more likely that standing by idiots from bad neighborhoods is simply politically convenient right now and so they're making noise because that's what idiots do when you give them a microphone.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#99

Post by krapp » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #95

_y5hn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the treason of storming a democratic process, and then lying about it? It makes you question who you're working for, when half of politicians are behaving in such shameful manner without reprecussions and justice. These police officers were physically assaulted and had no way of knowing wether they'd come out of it alive or dead. Some people were even searching for politicians to murder, and officers had n…

Yes, January 6th is more like the Beer Hall Putsch. And we all know that that was only the beginning of Hitler's political career. Not sure if that is the right comparison, history is not repeating itself in that way. But having a failed, rather embarrassingly, coup attempt is no guarantee there won't be another one. Or a power grab abusing existing, legitimate democratic processes. The first time the NSDAP won was t…

> First order of the day was a new election that was everything but democratic, so.

We're seeing the groundwork for this being laid by various states passing "reforms" on voting intended to prevent another "fraudulent election" from taking place (intended to both normalize the narrative that such a fraud occurred and legitimize it when it occurs in the Trumpists' favor under these reforms) and attempts to repeal Section 230 protections and have the government directly control platform content (again, normalizing the narrative that social media platforms have been engaged in an organized criminal conspiracy of censorship and making it illegal for such platforms to combat Trumpist misinformation in the future.)

I don't think Trump has a chance of being elected again - he's burned too many bridges even with his own base after the insurrection by not pardoning the conspirators - but it's entirely likely someone else in the family or another, more charismatic Trumpist will step in and succeed where Trump failed.

History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#100

Post by BoxOfRain » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 11:44 AM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #85

BoxOfRain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Thanks for educating me, while I was aware of the strong judgements against suicide (in particular based on religious justifications), I did not connect that to the use of language. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions too quickly.

No worries! As far as I'm aware it's a fairly recent innovation in language, it'd be harsh to judge people for using the older terminology especially as top-down language changes like this are often fairly controversial.