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Enough is enough

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131–135 of 135 posts

Re: Enough is enough

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organizations can be moral in two ways: 1. As you note: They are made up of people, usually only a few with the ultimate power. Whatever the legal or organizational structures, human morality is inherited from the decision makers. 2. But also: Aside from the individuals, decision making structures within any organization (or mechanism for that matter) can be set up to align with morality or not. I.e. incentives, metr…

In the "can be" vs. "is" argument, a point that's frequently neglected is what's the prevelance of the circumstance argued? How many commercial business corporate entities are explicitly structured with a moral focus as their principle organising principle? Would that even stand up under corporate law in most jurisdictions (e.g., Delaware, where the state supreme court has pretty much upheld the Friedman "shareholder…

I was arguing that morality isn't a strictly human phenomenon.

--

I don't think a "moral focus as their principle organizing principle" is necessary for a moral corporation any more than I think it is necessary for a moral human.

It's enough that a company's structure, whether implicitly or explicitly, aligns itself with the long term good for all stakeholders, i.e. the greater good. As apposed to aligning with short term or short sighted good at the expense of long term and wider focused good.

After all, some "good" people are just expressing their personality as it naturally developed. Others are intentionally expressing principles they spent years considering. Is one type of "good" person better than the other?

And of course the opposite: Some seemingly evil people are acting on the only instincts they seem to have, while others are well aware of the damage they do. Both people might have the same IQ, access to situational awareness, etc., so we are likely to judge both the same, but their actions can come from very different places internally.

Morality is clearest at the behavioral level of a system or human. Less clear the deeper into the internal causes one looks.

Re: Enough is enough

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the "can be" vs. "is" argument, a point that's frequently neglected is what's the prevelance of the circumstance argued? How many commercial business corporate entities are explicitly structured with a moral focus as their principle organising principle? Would that even stand up under corporate law in most jurisdictions (e.g., Delaware, where the state supreme court has pretty much upheld the Friedman "shareholder…

I was arguing that morality isn't a strictly human phenomenon. -- I don't think a "moral focus as their principle organizing principle" is necessary for a moral corporation any more than I think it is necessary for a moral human. It's enough that a company's structure, whether implicitly or explicitly, aligns itself with the long term good for all stakeholders, i.e. the greater good. As apposed to aligning with short…

The structure of a firm does NOT align with all stakeholders. It aligns principally with shareholders and creditors. The strongest advocates of the firm would have you believe it aligns only with shareholders.

Re: Enough is enough

#133

Is there an explanation why hacking-as-a-service is not illegal under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act ? The page goes on at such length I admit I barely skimmed it, beyond checking that yes cell phones are deemed computers.

It's not in US jurisdiction?

It's not in US jurisdiction, and its not one of the things Washington feels so strongly about that it tries to suppress it in other jurisdictions?

Re: Enough is enough

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was arguing that morality isn't a strictly human phenomenon. -- I don't think a "moral focus as their principle organizing principle" is necessary for a moral corporation any more than I think it is necessary for a moral human. It's enough that a company's structure, whether implicitly or explicitly, aligns itself with the long term good for all stakeholders, i.e. the greater good. As apposed to aligning with short…

The structure of a firm does NOT align with all stakeholders. It aligns principally with shareholders and creditors. The strongest advocates of the firm would have you believe it aligns only with shareholders.

I disagree with what you stated explicitly. But from the nuance of what you stated, maybe we are in agreement.

A structure of a firm does not NECESSARILY align with all stakeholders.

That doesn't mean that there are not firms designed by their founders and leaders to be more moral than that.

Re: Enough is enough

#135
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unusual to call his ex-wives his widows?

It is. That's not the aspect I was addressing. The number of former wives of Khashoggi is, however, trivial to research. The accepted definition of a widow is a woman who was married to person at the time of that person's death: https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/widow (The definition specifies "husband", though I suspect with the rise in gay marriages, a female survivor of an intact legal union will be c…

> I can't speak for notafraudster's intent, though their usage isn't an accepted one.

Maybe they'd just picked up "He'd had three wives" or similar and assumed they were simultaneous.

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