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Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

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Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#131

Post by bsaul »

vl wrote: post #115
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

But your integration into Google ecosystem was not an objective, and this is not a mess at all, it worked as intended - a lot of people got promos! Just imagine if there is a consistent, coherent multi-year strategy, it would be way harder to get a promotion. (I actually worked on one of the mentioned messaging products, it was a shitshow)

without giving names or identifiable details, could you explain what a "shitshow" looks like in those kind of environments ?

Is it like having an insane amount of validation, or everchanging requirements, or huge technical constraints, demotivated or unqualified people, etc.. what is it ?

i still remember the time when google was at the forefront of web app innovation, and it was probably already quite big. So i'm really curious to know what are the things that make it different today.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#132

Post by encryptluks2 »

reader_mode wrote: post #89
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

I don't think Google or Microsoft have the culture to compete with Apple in consumer space. Microsoft is all about milking enterprises and Google seems to be geared towards launching random projects and then getting them stuck in limbo or killed off. This is sad for me because I hate how locked down Apple ecosystem is, I constantly get rubbed by their store policy that I stick with Android, but life is much simpler i…

I think they easily outpace Apple in the consumer space. What areas do you think Apple does better?

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#133

Post by pmlnr »

fastball wrote: post #9
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

Which service do you use for CalDAV / CardDAV? I've been trying to migrate from a gmail account to my own personal domain, but my current provider doesn't support those so I want to move on to someone else. The thing that annoys me most is that (as far as I can tell) only the big name providers have integrated mail/caldav/carddav, if you use a bring-your-own-domain solution they need to be added as 3 separate account…

self-hosted options: nextcloud, radicale, baikal, cyrus.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#134

Post by zeusk »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #125
simonh wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has the same problems Microsoft has always had. They have one huge cash cow that funds the entire company, and everything else is peripheral (a first world problem of course). Arguably MS now has more than one, but they've existed twice as long as Google and it's taken many decades to get to that point. It never really mattered if PlayForSure, Zune, Bing, Windows Phone etc were big successes or not, the compan…

> They have one huge cash cow that funds the entire company Office, windows, Azure/development, Xbox/gaming are all integrated and cash cows.

Surface, Dynamics/PowerBI, Research, NeXT (Hololens)

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#135

Post by zeusk »

busymom0 wrote: post #86
gonehome wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there’s a lot more potential for iPad hardware UI, but also think they’ve improved year over year. It’ll be interesting to see what they work out for iPad OS to make it more powerful. They’re obviously not willing to just slap a standard PC OS on there. I’d guess they’re going to come up with new stuff from first principles as best they can for it (even if that means limiting it in the short term).

Based on how MacOS switched app icons to rounded corner similar to iPad and they added extra spacing on menu bar icons, controls (volume/display etc) are all similar to iOS ones, I won't be surprised if they put MacOS on iPad. iPad already has M1 chip too.

They're closer to putting ipadOS on macbooks

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#136

Post by UncleMeat »

roenxi wrote: post #94
gonehome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that an…

[flagged]

As we all know, anti-capitalists definitely tend to work for and own mega-corportations. The bay area is more left than right, but leftists are definitely not in control of tech companies.

This is also awfully authoritarian of you.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#137

Post by wffurr »

COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

Meanwhile I’m using Google stuff just fine. Skip the fads and stick to the basics, and it all still works. I’m glad your setup works for you, but Google apps haven’t been all that frustrating for me.

I’ve been using Gmail and Hangouts since they were introduced, migrated from Google Talk to Hangouts which was fairly transparent except I had to stop using Pidgin and use the web app instead. Still using Hangouts all these years later until they make me switch to Chat. It works fine.

There is a chance I try to get my family and friends to switch to Element or something instead of Chat, but it’s unlikely, since Google will provide a smooth switchover and we’ll all just have to tap a button to switch, and they’ll interoperate.

I got a Google Voice number many years ago too, but only use it for forwarding, never set up Fi, and it still works fine. Never enabled the hangouts SMS integration, because I can already get texts on the computer.

I skipped out on Allo and Duo; they seemed like a lost cause from the start. Never really posted much on Google+ anyway.

My music was in Google Play and now it’s in YouTube Music, but I mostly stream anyway. I don’t love the new interface, but it mostly works fine.

I had lots of RSS feeds in Google Reader, but NewsBlur had a simple import and works just as well as Reader ever did.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#138

Post by thenoblesunfish »

pmontra wrote: post #84
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #51

A comment I don't see here yet is that this is to some extent a consequence of Google's business model. The assumption seems to be that a company should be wary about doing what they're doing, because they'll lose business. But Google's not directly selling these services, in most cases. I assume they're happy with the way they do things, which is try a bunch of stuff in a slightly chaotic but fairly nimble way, be h…

This and also: I wonder if the messiness of these products derives from a messy company structure. Maybe different departments or teams competing against each other for money, career advancements, etc. all without a strong leadership that can cut bad ideas before they start to be developed. Does anybody have information to prove or disprove this conjecture?

"Mess" (a term from the article, I realize) might be too perjorative of a term. Coordination, hierarchy, and lack of redundancy can also have downsides.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#139

Post by wffurr »

roenxi wrote: post #94
gonehome wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that an…

[flagged]

That’s frankly amazing that you can perceive the die-hard techno-libertarian capitalists in Silicon Valley as leftists.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#140

Post by lukeschlather »

wffurr wrote: post #137
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

Meanwhile I’m using Google stuff just fine. Skip the fads and stick to the basics, and it all still works. I’m glad your setup works for you, but Google apps haven’t been all that frustrating for me. I’ve been using Gmail and Hangouts since they were introduced, migrated from Google Talk to Hangouts which was fairly transparent except I had to stop using Pidgin and use the web app instead. Still using Hangouts all th…

There's not even a button. Google Chat seems to "just work" already. I am cautiously optimistic. It actually also seems better than Hangouts. https://mail.google.com/chat actually works well. Pageup/pagedown works, which is a nice change.

"Google Chat" feels a lot like they finally fixed all the bugs they introduced when they replaced GChat with Hangouts.

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