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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#131

Post by CabSauce »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #48
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

  Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late...
That is a hilarious take. You must be a lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#132

Post by lostcolony »

Mistletoe wrote: post #30
throwaway4485we wrote: post #14

Throaway to not get sued. E-ink, the company, holds the patents of the pigment core tech that makes "paper-like" displays possible and strongarms the display manufacturers and the users of their displays to absolute silence. Any research project or startup that comes up with a better alternative technology gets bought out or buried by their lawyers ASAP. E-ink don't make the display themselves, they make the e-ink fi…

It’s so silly though, have they done real correct math on how much more they would make if everyone used it?

Volume doesn't always equate to greater profit. High margin luxury goods are a valid business strategy too. I'm sure they're doing the thing that their data points to as netting them the largest profit.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#133

Post by codethief »

visarga wrote: post #86
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Got mine a week ago. I always take notes and draw mind maps while working on a project, so this fits perfectly. I like the pen and paper sensation, the fact that my handwriting is exactly the same as on paper, the ability to erase, rewrite, cut and paste. I don't like the flaky sync but love seeing my drawings as PDFs. The LiveView function almost doesn't work but a third party app allows me to display the tablet on…

> I don't like the flaky sync

Probably relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26145584

> Arxiv PDFs are easy to read only if you crop or zoom

Have you tried another PDF reader, like KOReader[0] or plato[1]? There's also [2] which looks really interesting for cases where you want to save time.

[0]: https://github.com/koreader/koreader

[1]: https://github.com/darvin/plato

[2]: https://github.com/GjjvdBurg/paper2remarkable

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#134

Post by codethief »

mumblemumble wrote: post #83
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Could you expound a bit on why you think it's more useful? I am thinking about getting one (or one of a couple other similar options), because I think it would be MUCH more comfortable for reading and annotating papers, which is my main practical use case for an iPad. And if it's at all a decent replacement for a paper notebook, that would reduce the number of things in my bag. But I'm also a bit worried that the org…

I'm in the same boat as you, I'm thinking about getting a ReMarkable 2 and am turned off by their cloud service. It seems possible to run Syncthing[0], however, so this is giving me hope.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26145584

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#135

Post by ahnick »

visarga wrote: post #86
pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

Got mine a week ago. I always take notes and draw mind maps while working on a project, so this fits perfectly. I like the pen and paper sensation, the fact that my handwriting is exactly the same as on paper, the ability to erase, rewrite, cut and paste. I don't like the flaky sync but love seeing my drawings as PDFs. The LiveView function almost doesn't work but a third party app allows me to display the tablet on…

> The LiveView function almost doesn't work but a third party app allows me to display the tablet on the desktop for Zoom meetings.

What's the third party app?

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#136

Post by criddell »

m-p-3 wrote: post #84
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way e-ink works is quite different from an LCD. They didn't even get color until recently. Personally, I think the benefits of reflective reading surfaces (ie e-ink) over backlit reading surfaces (everything else) is massively overblown. I have an e-ink tablet now that they are >300ppi and it's nice to read on, but it's a novelty. Some people love 'em, but that hasn't stopped the iPad Pro from outselling all of t…

If I could bind a 8/10" eInk tablet that was around $200 (or $300) on which I could read and reply to my emails, read RSS feeds, check my calendar and take handwritten notes on it (that I could export/sync) I'd constantly use it.

These guys sell something like that:

https://www.boox.com/

I've heard they are great except for the GPL violations...

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#137

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #115
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this is an age thing? Up until very very recently, “retarded” did mean what we now refer to as mentally disabled. It was a slur that people pushed back on just like the words that preceded it, but the pejorative figurative use won out. But it’s too recent to say that’s definitively not what it means anymore. It’s hard to date these kinds of things, but the first document I found was the social security ad…

I would like to point towards urban dictionary and different definitions of literally [1] that I found quite amusing, please excuse the language. > a word with no meaning in today's USA. Person 1: I am literally going to have a stroke if I see another tweet about fake news. Person 2: Are you really? Should I call 911? --- > Who fucking knows anymore? First, it meant factual, and now it means fictional. What the fuck,…

> All of this begs the question, when does a definition change of a word change?

(This is a perfect context for “begs the question”)

I think that form of the question isn’t a useful one and that’s the issue in the broader discussion. A definition is a useful yet leaky abstraction. If you take the viewpoint that a dictionary is merely descriptive, then “the” definition isn’t really a thing. “A” definition is more appropriate. If a definition is an attempt to capture one of the common ways people use and understand a word, your question becomes this:

When do the ways people use and understand a word change? At what point is there close enough to nobody left using a word in a given way?

The distinction is crucial here because a word can mean many things, and it can mean different things to different people. I’d answer your question by pointing to that phrase about science: It progresses one funeral at a time.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#138

Post by Karawebnetwork »

nate_meurer wrote: post #74
alisonkisk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can attend to more than one abuse of language at once. "Idiot" and other discourse-terminaring slurs have no place on HN. It's not the word that's the problem, it's the intended meaning. The euphemism treadmill is when people keep changing words instead of communicating better.

Except GP didn't use the word "retard" to terminate discourse, or to shortcut debate or insult anyone in this thread. The word was purely descriptive, and this context, quite appropriate and illustrative. I can think of no other single word that better describes the behavior of the E-Ink patent holders.

> I can think of no other single word that better describes the behavior of the E-Ink patent holders.

This is the central point of this issue.

This person uses a word that used to mean "person with a mental health problem" to describe a situation where a company "lacks intelligence and awareness".

People who have been and still are the victims of this insult do not want to be associated with the concept of "lack of intelligence".

Write the same sentence without using the slur as a crutch. "The company that holds the patents for electronic ink has an [intellectual disability]".

In this format, it is very clear that this wording is problematic.

In any case, it is simply bad writing. There are many other ways to describe what this company does without using a word that comes with a heavy medical and social history.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#139

Post by crooked-v »

pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

The one thing that's kept me from getting one of those is the measly 8 GB storage and not even having an SD card slot.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#140

Post by abeppu »

pidg wrote: post #10

I own a reMarkable 2. There is certainly enough to justify the cost, if you are a prolific note-taker. Conversely, I find it hard to justify the cost of an iPad, becuase I already have a phone and several laptops. I can't see a situation where a tablet would be more useful to me, so I've never bought one. Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that. Most people wou…

> Turns out different people have different needs, and the e-ink note-taking market caters to that.

I have the first generation, and I do enjoy it. However, I think a distinction is _how_ one takes notes. For brainstorming, and just writing free-form, it's great. However, I find it really annoying for taking notes about a doc, for two reasons:

- If you need more notes than fit in the margins and whitespace of a PDF, are you going to flip between the doc and a separate file of notes? What if you want to compare two documents, and take notes about the distinct ways two authors discuss the same material? The idea that you can't have more than one thing open feels immediately limiting.

- If you're several pages into a doc and want to flip back to some prior point (and you don't recall the specific page number), it's actually pretty awkward.

I feel like these devices are on the cusp of being much more satisfying. But at present, either I print out all but one thing which I can deal with on the remarkable, or I end up looking at a combination of a laptop and the remarkable, and in either case, I can't help feeling that an obvious use case was not well considered.

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