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The endless browser wars

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Re: The endless browser wars

#131

Post by Person5478 »

preommr wrote: post #52
izacus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that you're talking about a completely different situation - Microsoft was attacked for defaulting their browser in their operating system, which had majority market share. This isn't really the case with Chrome though - on Windows, I keep having my browser reset back to Edge with fullscreen ads, on macOS the default browser is Safari (and it keeps spamming me with notification advertisements to use it), on An…

Because it's not about the operating system, but all the related services that are embedded in the browser. I use chrome because it ties with my google account which ties in with... pretty much everything. It stores a lot of my passwords, it ties in with my gmail, my google workspace, my shared extensions that gets installed with any other chrome browsers through this google account, other google apps like google doc…

exactly.

The platform used to be the OS, but google effectively commoditized it and the new platform is the 'cloud'. If you're on MS your new platform is going to be OWS, Azure, etc. With google it's going to be google cloud, gmail, and so forth.

What's considered a platform has vastly changed.

Re: The endless browser wars

#132

Post by Lev1a »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #64

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. The creators of web sites have responded by not caring about Firefox; having to retry broken web sites in Chrome is a ritual that many Firefox users have had to get used…

Adding to the sibling comment, MEGA download of large files apparently only works if you use a Chromium-based browser since those quasi-standardised a feature that IIRC allows websites direct access to local storage.

W.T.A.F.

Re: The endless browser wars

#133

Post by maceurt »

CivBase wrote: post #111

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of…

I wish I could stomach firefox, but everything about it just absolutely infuriates me. Even with a bunch of addons it is bothersome to run. The issue is that most people spend majority of their time on a PC in a web browser, including myself. Even a 5% worse product is still going to add up to a sizable amount of wasted time/ unneeded frustration. I personally spend hours tinkering with my OS to make it better for me to use, I can't justify using an inferior product in regards to taking a moral stand.

Or at least if I was going to take a moral stand I would start by spending at least 50% more time & money for clothing/ other products not manufactured immorally.

Re: The endless browser wars

#134

Post by inpdx »

xg15 wrote: post #127
CivBase wrote: post #111

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of…

> If you can't tolerate Firefox because of Mozilla's problems, how can you possibly stomach Chrome/Chromium with Google at the wheel? OT, but I think this is an interesting psychological phenomenon that occurs in a lot of settings, in particular politics: People, services, products etc are not judged by objective (or even just common) standards but by the standards they announce for themselves . So someone who claims…

I.e. republicans holding Biden to the unity standard because Biden claimed that mantle, when it was never a goal of theirs for the last four years.

Re: The endless browser wars

#135

Post by djhaskin987 »

My favorite quote from the article:

> Chromium has taken a path similar to Android's; there is a core built with free software, but getting its full functionality requires accepting layers of proprietary code on top of it. The fact that said code is running on a remote server somewhere does not really change that situation.

Google has used this wolf-in-sheep's-clothing approach for yeas, and it has worked. Fortunately, though, it's also backfired a bit. With things like Microsoft Edge using the open core that google has provided (Chromium) on the market, users have a choice of browser host, including what servers their bookmarks/syncing lives on. Not the best choice, perhaps, but still, a choice. :)

Re: The endless browser wars

#136

Post by aquova »

maceurt wrote: post #133
CivBase wrote: post #111

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of…

I wish I could stomach firefox, but everything about it just absolutely infuriates me. Even with a bunch of addons it is bothersome to run. The issue is that most people spend majority of their time on a PC in a web browser, including myself. Even a 5% worse product is still going to add up to a sizable amount of wasted time/ unneeded frustration. I personally spend hours tinkering with my OS to make it better for me…

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes Firefox 5% worse than Chromium-based browsers in your eyes?

Re: The endless browser wars

#137

Post by [deleted] »

sinkflay wrote: post #83
doublerabbit wrote: post #38

Until someone creates a new browser with a new render/scripting engine. Which everyone always jumps on saying "it's impossible", the war is over. Chrome has won. Chrome is currently giving life support to Mozilla and when they decide to axe that, well it's game over for Mozilla. The depressing part is the freedom, the new that the internet once provided is over. It's been turned in to a commercial breeding ground and…

> Chrome is currently giving life support to Mozilla and when they decide to axe that, well it's game over for Mozilla. Mozilla has a viable business model: making a browser and selling placement of search engine. They aren't on "life support" from Google. I use Firefox every day and it's a great browser. Chrome has not leap-frogged the competition. It's just the default choice for most people.

[deleted]

Re: The endless browser wars

#138

Post by dimitrios1 »

xg15 wrote: post #127
CivBase wrote: post #111

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of…

> If you can't tolerate Firefox because of Mozilla's problems, how can you possibly stomach Chrome/Chromium with Google at the wheel? OT, but I think this is an interesting psychological phenomenon that occurs in a lot of settings, in particular politics: People, services, products etc are not judged by objective (or even just common) standards but by the standards they announce for themselves . So someone who claims…

There's another angle here I think you are missing

> If you can't tolerate Firefox because of Mozilla's problems, how can you possibly stomach Chrome/Chromium with Google at the wheel?

It's because it's not enough to be wrong about something (according to certain people), but you must be punished for being wrong. And narcissists can't handle a company not being "100% right" so they punish them by going to their competitors, with no regard if their competitor is objectively worse for their causes. The intent is to cause harm to get your own way.

Re: The endless browser wars

#139

Post by hyper_reality »

xg15 wrote: post #127
CivBase wrote: post #111

> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken. I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of…

> If you can't tolerate Firefox because of Mozilla's problems, how can you possibly stomach Chrome/Chromium with Google at the wheel? OT, but I think this is an interesting psychological phenomenon that occurs in a lot of settings, in particular politics: People, services, products etc are not judged by objective (or even just common) standards but by the standards they announce for themselves . So someone who claims…

The best I could find is the "false-signaling theory of hypocrisy": social psychology research which demonstrates that "people judge hypocrites negatively-even more negatively than people who directly make false statements about their morality" [1]

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28107103/

Re: The endless browser wars

#140

Post by mortehu »

aquova wrote: post #136
maceurt wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could stomach firefox, but everything about it just absolutely infuriates me. Even with a bunch of addons it is bothersome to run. The issue is that most people spend majority of their time on a PC in a web browser, including myself. Even a 5% worse product is still going to add up to a sizable amount of wasted time/ unneeded frustration. I personally spend hours tinkering with my OS to make it better for me…

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes Firefox 5% worse than Chromium-based browsers in your eyes?

Not GP, but I decided to try Firefox again last week, and had to give up because I couldn't navigate to intranet URLs without explicitly typing http://

Strangely foo/ works (goes to http://foo/) while foo/bar does not (instead does a web search for foo/bar).

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