China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says • Hacker News Board

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#131

Post by Lio » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

Biologically speaking you realise that we as a species haven’t evolved perceptibly in all recorded human history?

If you were to somehow take a caveman’s baby, bring it back to the current time and raise it to full adulthood you would not be able to tell the difference it and “us”.

Any progress we’ve made with regard to human rights is purely cultural and not innate ...and it can disappear in the blink of an eye.

You can bet that any horrible thing you can imagine happening some vile cnut somewhere has done to some other poor sap.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#132

Post by luckylion » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

hkmaxpro wrote: post #80

yorwba wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sterilization was standard procedure for Han Chinese women for decades: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world/asia/after-one-chil...

But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps? > The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang. > But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the aborti…

> But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps?

All of them? Certainly not, China would look pretty empty. Some of them? Yeah, unless you have a special definition of concentration camp.

The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You tend to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#133

Post by hkmaxpro » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #126

hkmaxpro wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Nature paper [0] suggests that 66 or even 95 percent of the cases could be avoided, had China acted on the coronavirus 1 to 3 weeks earlier [1]. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2293-x [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-finds...

But that paper, at least in the abstract, talks about preventable deaths in China . The anti-communists talk about China being to blame for the deaths in other countries because those countries had no warning.

The paper was posted on March 13 [0], before Covid-19 peaked outside of China. Of course it didn’t focus on other places.

The abstract shows the authors believe its findings have relevance elsewhere:

> These findings improve our understanding of the effects of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19, and will inform response efforts across the world

[0] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v...

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#134

Post by rootsudo » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

I don't understand why people think other countries should follow the Western idea of morality or what is atrocities.

Sino China was involved in WW2, yet look at this.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#135

Post by im3w1l » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

baskire wrote: post #30

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

Surprised trump doesn’t use this to place sanctions on China and up his base’s support.

The genocide against the Uighurs have been going on for a while, and Trump has already put sanctions on China.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#136

Post by pasquinelli » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

cercatrova wrote: post #88

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

The fallacy is assuming the nature of civilizations has changed or will continue to get better over time. Human nature is fundamentally warlike, with the subjugation of those tribes deemed lesser, or just in the way of some natural resource. While there is cooperation within individuals in the tribe, history has shown that tribes will conquer rather than cooperate with other tribes given the chance. This is just the…

you're attributing to individuals traits that belong to groups. americans are docile, but america is very violent and easily provoked. so why do you think genetically engineering people to be more docile would help?

what could be more docile than an ant? but an ant nest is a psycho. i think you might have the whole thing flipped on its head, at least. mass violence requires mass discipline, and you can only discipline a subject that's docile.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#137

Post by Lio » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #97

zadler wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we really haven't progressed that much outside of technology This would imply that the measure of progression / advancement is civility, and that we are going to progress and become more civil given more time. That seems to be a fallacy also, it may be that evolution does not optimise for civility at all, after all being civil is not going to help you to crush your enemies or attract a mate in this environment.

Evolution might promote civility in a similar way to peacock feathers through sexual selection. Civility implies that you have enough wealth and power to spare on luxuries even in a world of brutal competition. This allows you to attract more mates/immigrants which ultimately offsets the additional cost.

Evolution is very slow:

  you.class == caveman.class

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#138

Post by wildfire » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

rootsudo wrote: post #134

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

I don't understand why people think other countries should follow the Western idea of morality or what is atrocities. Sino China was involved in WW2, yet look at this.

Given that this is the United Nation definition of Genocide, why do you think this is Western in any way?

Remember China had a hand in crafting this definition.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#139

Post by aembleton » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

saeranv wrote: post #111

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

I had a professor (a historian who studied Auschwitz) who used to argue the opposite. Germany was a modern, industrialized nation, with an educated population - and yet the majority of the population either actively committed genocide, or were complicit in some fashion. My professor thus argued that the conditions for the Holocaust are not unique, and there could easily be another one.

> yet the majority of the population either actively committed genocide, or were complicit in some fashion

after they were plunged into poverty by the reparations demanded by the Treaty of Versailles. Plunder any first world country like that and expect the same.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#140

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #132

hkmaxpro wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps? > The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang. > But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the aborti…

> But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps? All of them? Certainly not, China would look pretty empty. Some of them? Yeah, unless you have a special definition of concentration camp. The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You tend to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you.

[deleted]