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GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

reuters.com

131–140 of 296 posts

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#131

"doubling down on our engineering work and engineering talent,” Cruise spokesperson Milin Mehta told Reuters. Do these folks even try to hide their lies? Doubling down = 2x the engineering staff. This is as they lay off in their lidar team. Can companies be sued for these types of basically false claims or are we just stuck commenting on what lies they seem come up with. Can you imagine if your day to day life involv…

Honestly, I'd rather work with them than with people who wilfully misinterpret statements and just flip a shit constantly. "I think it's time to double down on email marketing" -> my teammates understand that means I'm going to switch where I put most of my effort. I can just imagine you saying "Yet you're not allocating 8 hours a day instead of 4 on this. I'm going to sue you" God, that would be exhausting.

It’s just a weasel word that can mean anything. Avoid weasel words. In your situation, why not just say I’m going to put my current efforts and focus on X as you clearly meant.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#132

It's still keeping the self-driving unit thought, even though there's a good chance it won't ever be successful. I don't think self-driving cars are realistic at all. I bet if you did a study and ran the numbers, it would be cheaper to put down rail on existing roads and make them rail-car only, automate those and subsidize rail cars. I feel in the minority in thinking self driving tech will ever be viable. I've work…

>I don't think self-driving cars are realistic at all They said the same thing about a Computer beating a Human at Chess or Go, or Radiology, or countless other examples. I don't see why a random person on hackernews would be any more correct than any of the previous naysayers.

They also said the same thing about time travel and dragons.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#133
post #110

It's still keeping the self-driving unit thought, even though there's a good chance it won't ever be successful. I don't think self-driving cars are realistic at all. I bet if you did a study and ran the numbers, it would be cheaper to put down rail on existing roads and make them rail-car only, automate those and subsidize rail cars. I feel in the minority in thinking self driving tech will ever be viable. I've work…

> I don't think self-driving cars are realistic at all. ... > I feel in the minority in thinking self driving tech will ever be viable. Take out "cars" from that phrase and I think there might be a different answer to it, sooner or later. Specifically I liked Otto's original proposals and it sounded almost viable. The idea of having a Sacramento -> Chicago or Houston to Dallas routes for trucking with autonomous vehi…

I completely agree. I don't think the only value in AI is to totally replace humans, but rather automate the boring and costly parts that don't require a ton of thinking.

In my field of AI in radiology, I see a lot of people trying to completely automate things that don't have to be, and thereby fail to innovate on the particularly hard parts. Sometimes it's better to just have a human somewhere in the loop to make the harder judgement calls.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#134
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mean they're increasing the workload of the remaining engineers, not that they're doing something to benefit or other wise honor them.

yep - the idea that they are doubling down on their engineering talent (2x headcount or 2x salaries or 2x resources) or whatever big bet they claim to be making seems like it might be a lie. The PR guy (Milin Mehta) used to work at Kraken Digital Asset Exchange. They are known for suing to identify ten reviewers on Glassdoor, claiming they are former employees in breach of their severance contract. Why work at compan…

That’s quite incredible.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'd rather work with them than with people who wilfully misinterpret statements and just flip a shit constantly. "I think it's time to double down on email marketing" -> my teammates understand that means I'm going to switch where I put most of my effort. I can just imagine you saying "Yet you're not allocating 8 hours a day instead of 4 on this. I'm going to sue you" God, that would be exhausting.

It’s just a weasel word that can mean anything. Avoid weasel words. In your situation, why not just say I’m going to put my current efforts and focus on X as you clearly meant.

Because human expression is cool, man. "You guys are killing it!" is way better than "You human beings are performing above average for this task. I appreciate this". Also it's not a weasel word. It's totally just an expression.

I find it truly incredible that someone feels the way you do.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#136
post #70

Sort of off topic, I've noticed news articles have been very lax with basic editing: "Thursday, the layoff includes staff at an engineering team in Padasedna, California" The article says "Reporting By Jane Lanhee Lee and David Shepardson; Editing by Chizu Nomiyama and David Gregorio". Two editors missed the typo.

Padasedna, Cafilroina: The City of Roses

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#137
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full self-driving is a long way off, but GM can use Cruise to develop new active safety systems for their current cars. I don't think GM is doing as well there as Toyota or Honda, let alone Tesla.

Cruise (the SF company) doesn't do any work related to GM's current cars, we are focused 100% on full self driving. Note GM has another product called SuperCruise which is a totally different thing.

Funny thing about marketing. Tesla’s autopilot and GM’s supercruise is effectively the same thing in the scope of vehicle automation. GM is doing a poor job of showcasing it though to the general public, unless it’s by default to avoid being sued.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#138
post #39

Remember (approx. 6 months ago) when we were seriously, unironically worried that all menial labor jobs would be taken by AI? Now we're worried about all the AI jobs disappearing.

Vast number of menial jobs will still be automated, and if anything, the quarantines are going to speed up the process.

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#139

I went to a recruiting event that was put on by Cruise. It was disguised as a marketing "advisory board" where they asked us questions like "What motivates you as an engineer when looking for a new job? Would changing the world help?" "Would you like to be rewarded handsomely?" "Which of these statements most resonate with you?" They paid me $500 for about an hour to sit through their sales pitch. Then I finally cave…

[deleted]

Re: GM self-driving tech unit Cruise laying off about 8% of staff

#140
post #39

Remember (approx. 6 months ago) when we were seriously, unironically worried that all menial labor jobs would be taken by AI? Now we're worried about all the AI jobs disappearing.

> Now we're worried about all the AI jobs disappearing.

I work in the space, and I'm not[1] worried about that at all. For what it's worth, anyone who knows what they're talking about also wasn't worried that all menial jobs would be taken by AI: fine motor control is really difficult, so paradoxically, janitors are safer than many middle-skilled white collar jobs are. More broadly, my model of AI is one of slow but inexorable progress: the dirty secret of tech eating the world is that most industries are run obscenely inefficiently. This doesn't suggest that Google et al can just jump into any random industry with both feet and have immediate success, but this is largely due to inertia (and in some case, regulatory barriers slowing transitions of any kind[2]), both of which are short- and medium-run concerns.

The Cruise announcement in particular is a bit of a strange one to choose to make this point:

> The layoffs represent about 8% of Cruise’s workforce. The losses were mostly in business strategy, product development, design, and recruiting. The company also dismissed staff working on Lidar engineering in Pasadena, Calif.[3]

Cruise has >2 years of runway in the bank right now[3], is a financial entity separate from GM (no longer wholly owned), and is shifting their resources away from "close to market" towards "investing in the research problem", just like other SDC companies like Waymo. The Covid downturn, like most downturns, is just a useful pretext to engage in this restructuring.

I usually tend towards taking the pessimistic view of uncertainty that affects me personally, I guess because I'm relatively risk-averse. But all the signals I've seen from the economic impact of Covid indicate that AI jobs are going to be affected by the general economic downturn but be in much _better_ relative shape than many other jobs: while shelter-in-place won't last forever, the more-lsating effects will likely include things like increased inshoring of manufacturing and an increase in demand for delivery and logistics (both central applications for robotics). The trend of people spending more time online is only increasing too, and the applications of AI there are self-explanatory from the last decade (people really do underestimate what ML specialists do: "decreasing Google's datacenter cooling costs by 40%" isn't the central AI problem most people think of, but it's the kind of things that creates massive amounts of value.

Possible longer-term trends that pose challenges for autonomous vehicle companies in particular (not AI eng in general) potentially include a) some deurbanization and b) less theoretical demand in shared transportation methods; but the latter may be somewhat mitigated by the refugees from transit to robotaxis (esp given that sharing an air pocket is so much more dangerous and hard to control than sharing surfaces).

[1] With caveats, I guess; I and most of my friends in the field have been in or adjacent to AI for a lot longer than the current boom, so we're seeing a very different picture than people who did a Tensorflow tutorial two years ago.

[2] Since I know this will be misinterpreted, I'll clarify: This isn't a suggestion that regulations are bad and should be run rough-shod over, just an acknowledgement that even good regulation tends to slow large shifts in the way industries run, just by introducing complexity and barriers to entry due to tribal knowledge of regulatory compliance. This isn't a criticism of regulation, just a well-known downside.

[3] https://electrek.co/2020/05/14/gm-cruise-lays-off-8-of-staff...

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