Seems so piecemeal. We have models that work in parts of the world like Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. Is there any reason why the US and Europe can’t follow their model?
New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
131–140 of 393 posts
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#132[deleted]
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doing that in the US is a Supreme Court case waiting to happen.
States have pretty broad police powers especially in times of crisis. It wouldn't surprise me to see the 10th Amendment apply to the state action of enforcing massive quarantines.
While that's definitely true, this is also inherently running up agains the Bill of Rights. Police powers are not unbounded so as this continues (and especially as it subsides), I expect legitimate unanswered questions of Constitutionality could come into play.
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#134[deleted]
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, I don't think near eradication is an acceptable goal either. We need to actually eradicate it. I specified near eradication because we have proof by example that it is possible. As yet, nobody has actually eradicated the virus in their borders, so I don't want to presume it is possible. However, it needs to be the goal. > To address "If we adopt a stance that makes R0 Depends on what we get the value to. If we ge…
I think everyone would agree with you. The question is how long that realistically takes, in a minimally-damaging way. I don't think there's a world in which there's a better option than "waiting for the vaccine with various forms of mitigation". Boy would I love to be proven wrong.
At this point it's hard to imagine doing much more damage to the economy than what is already being done, at least not in any way that would be useful for stopping the spread of the virus. We should take any further actions that seem likely to curtail the spread (massive testing, massively expanded surveillance and data publishing about the virus, centralized quarantines if needed to engender compliance). And then I guess we can see. If China has not managed to stamp it out in the next month or so, that will be a pretty bad sign for our ability to do.
> Boy would I love to be proven wrong.
I would love you to be proven wrong. And I'd accept being proven wrong, with deep regret. But it's definitely possible to get within striking distance. I hope we can see China jump the gap from few to no new cases soon. That would give me hope for the rest of us.
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#136There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.
Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…
I am absolutely sick to death of outrage culture, and I thoroughly agree - in fact I think the outrage probably encourages the bravado of people who are engaging in risky behaviour atm
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#137There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J60fQr0GWo
a top hospital in Italy's richest area overwhelmed by the virus.
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#138There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.
Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…
> But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that.
The problem with "outrage culture" isn't the outrage; it's the target of the outrage. This is real stuff, consequential, non-trivial. It's good to be outraged when people behave outrageously. It's not so good when what you're trying to do is get a stranger fired for a tweet you could easily have ignored. This isn't that.
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree... it doesn't make sense to just throw a blanket lock down over the whole county indiscriminately. Same goes for state governors to throw these blanket shutdowns of bars a restaurants over the whole state at once. I don't understand why we can't take a more localize approach to this. Maybe only implement the lock downs in the worst areas, or areas entering acceleration phase. Can't we be smarter about this? W…
Without out adequate testing, we can't know where to localize the lockdowns to.
This is true, but you don't need blanket testing to have adequate testing for estimation of community spread. There is a fantastic video here[1] that covers the specifics, but basically we know enough about how the virus spreads that if we just track who is in the hospital or dead from the virus, we can estimate its state of community spread, and thus know when to lock down.
Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services
#140At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…
Exactly. All this talk of "flattening the curve" is counterproductive if the curve remains flattened right at capacity for an extended period of time, which is what these measures will cause, rather than spiking for a short period.
Yeah, because a quick spike wouldn't have any outside effects at all.
You sound as if you're ok with millions of people dying miserably.
You think a long period of decreased economy is bad, the spike might cause outright panics and armed unrest.
We can print dollars, we can't resurrect the dead.