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What happens after Yahoo acquires you

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Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#131

Post by eftpotrm »

zdw wrote: post #17
SandB0x wrote: post #6

I once witnessed the moment when the messenger from the new management team comes over to explain to the brilliant engineers who built the company up from nothing about these "timesheets" they need to fill in, and how it's "really not a big deal". You could feel something dying over the course of the conversation. It was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, and I'm sure it's far worse if you are one o…

Sure. For every requirement created by the management people, it must create a datapoint that can be measured in terms of business success, as that's what they're there to foster. Employee morale should be one of these, and an important one in terms of obtaining and retaining talent. Changes that don't improve the business should be removed. If management can't provide improvement, management should be removed. It's…

Which is the kind of thinking that underlies the endless 'manageement team dashboard' apps that exist in the corporate world, because some higher up has decided that the best way to get an overview of the company is to come up with some Key Performance Metrics, then measure them and watch them religiously.

Which, like any score-base system, leads to results being gamed rather than the underlying performance being properly affected. Witness the banking crash - traders incentivised for short-term deals and not (by and large or significantly) penalised for them going wrong later, so they inflate a bubble. Now we have armies of economists arguing for longer bonus vesting periods or for penalty clauses, but they're missing the underlying problem that the system simply doesn't work.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#132

Post by Jgrubb »

You know what this whole article sounds exactly like to me? This sounds exactly like the major label record system of yore. Replace the instances of "internal executive champion" with "A&R guy" and "web service" with "band".

God knows how many absolutely awesome bands were signed to major labels over the decades by A&R that "got it" only to be left high and dry when that person was fired or moved somewhere else internally. Very little new under the sun, I suppose.

Great read.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#133

Post by danssig »

mgkimsal wrote: post #94
democracy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just do the time-sheets?

I've been at a few companies that required timesheets of software devs, and it was always weird/awkward at best. They never wanted just hours - they wanted to know what was done as well. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but the thing that bugged me was that it eventually was used against you. Mgr: "Oh.. well.. I see here you've only put in 38 hours on core projects this last week... this doesn't look too good…

You're taking all this a bit too seriously. It is not time efficient to log what you actually do, so what I always do is just ask my manager what percentage of my time is supposed to go where. Once I know I just fill my time sheet out that way. The whole thing is effectively just a double booking of project spending anyway. It baffles me why everyone does this manually instead of automating it. I don't really need to be involved at all.

EDIT: Thought better of it and changed my message. But I still think your manager is a moron since he's unable to point out the above, and life is too short to work for people like that.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#134

Post by ovi256 »

pdaviesa wrote: post #105
InclinedPlane wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the best engineers balk at corporate bureaucratic bullshit like timesheets. They don't work merely to pay the bills, they work because it's their passion. Once you take away that passion they may still come to work but maybe they're just zombie-ing through the day just for the paycheck, they're not giving you their best work anymore. And they're also no longer happy, so they'll slowly evaporate out of your co…

All this talk of freakin timesheets - they may be the biggest waste of time in the post-industrial era. Outside of a "billable hour" type firm, how many managers go back and look through timesheet data to make tactical or strategic decisions? I am now convinced that timesheets will be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

>I am now convinced that timesheets will be the downfall of civilization as we know it!

Oh let's not be overdramatic shall we ?

Civilization dies from a thousand papercuts, not a thundering blow. When the barbarians cut its head it's already dead.

That being said, timesheets are definitely one of those papercuts.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#135

Post by mgkimsal »

danssig wrote: post #133
mgkimsal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at a few companies that required timesheets of software devs, and it was always weird/awkward at best. They never wanted just hours - they wanted to know what was done as well. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but the thing that bugged me was that it eventually was used against you. Mgr: "Oh.. well.. I see here you've only put in 38 hours on core projects this last week... this doesn't look too good…

You're taking all this a bit too seriously. It is not time efficient to log what you actually do , so what I always do is just ask my manager what percentage of my time is supposed to go where. Once I know I just fill my time sheet out that way. The whole thing is effectively just a double booking of project spending anyway. It baffles me why everyone does this manually instead of automating it. I don't really need t…

Just for the record - this is a composite of various conversations over the years, and does not reflect specifically on any one manager I've directly reported to.

Also... I'm taking it too seriously? Over a 2 month period when, say, 400 hours are logged, but one week 2 hours are not accounted for in a specified (yet unspoken, hint hint, nudge, nudge) manner, and I'm taking it too seriously?

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#136

Post by doki_pen »

PaulJoslin wrote: post #124
jmathai wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with hartror. If the founders leave then what are you left with? It sounds great in theory that a team can keep the motivation and innovation coming but ultimately that's the job of the founders - and founders aren't easily replaced.

Reddit's Founders left the company and since then it has grown to become bigger and better and exceed everyone's expectations.

Could it possibly be that some of the employees are special people? There is no magic bullet. If the right people are in a position where the can succeed, they will. If you don't have the right people, it doesn't matter what scheme you employee, it won't work.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#137

Post by portman »

jmathai wrote: post #67
tptacek wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The issue isn't that the founders leave. It's that the team dies.

I have to agree with hartror. If the founders leave then what are you left with? It sounds great in theory that a team can keep the motivation and innovation coming but ultimately that's the job of the founders - and founders aren't easily replaced.

"If the founders leave then what are you left with?"

By this logic, the maximum life of any company is about 40 years.

Walmart and ExxonMobil are two examples of companies that became gargantuan long after their founders had left. In fact, of the Fortune 5000, I would bet the majority no longer employ their founders.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#138

Post by sethg »

buntar wrote: post #127
SandB0x wrote: post #6

I once witnessed the moment when the messenger from the new management team comes over to explain to the brilliant engineers who built the company up from nothing about these "timesheets" they need to fill in, and how it's "really not a big deal". You could feel something dying over the course of the conversation. It was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, and I'm sure it's far worse if you are one o…

If I understand you right, the do not own the company (anymore)? So that would make them employees - no? I think it's pretty normal that employees explain what they are doing. Especially if they work in a specialized field that is hard for the management to understand fully. So it doesn't have to be mistrust or a form of repression against the engineers. Yes I admit - I've always wanted time sheets. And they ARE a mi…

I keep track of my time on different projects using a half-assed version of the Pomodoro Method. However, that time-tracking paperwork is for my benefit alone. If I felt that the entire corporate hierarchy was looking down my shoulder as I checked off my time, the method would lose its value to me.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#139

Post by danssig »

mgkimsal wrote: post #135
danssig wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking all this a bit too seriously. It is not time efficient to log what you actually do , so what I always do is just ask my manager what percentage of my time is supposed to go where. Once I know I just fill my time sheet out that way. The whole thing is effectively just a double booking of project spending anyway. It baffles me why everyone does this manually instead of automating it. I don't really need t…

Just for the record - this is a composite of various conversations over the years, and does not reflect specifically on any one manager I've directly reported to. Also... I'm taking it too seriously? Over a 2 month period when, say, 400 hours are logged, but one week 2 hours are not accounted for in a specified (yet unspoken, hint hint, nudge, nudge) manner, and I'm taking it too seriously?

Ok, so seriously isn't the correct word. You're taking it too literally. They don't want to know how many seconds you spent typing code or thinking about code. They have a budget where some department has purchased 40 hours per week for you to work on their main project. Presumably you have smaller time bookings for other tasks. If you break this down it will come out to something like:

98% main

1% support

0.5% boss' pet task

0.5% other

All they want is for your time sheet to match that because that's what they've paid for. Some managers are smart enough to just tell you that, others (like the one you appear to have) don't like to say it for some reason. They should just automate it because the numbers you plug in are completely static.

It's just double booking, one side put in a "debit" for the project and now you're putting in the "credit" side saying it was paid. No one cares what you actually did because the exact moments you spent on the project shouldn't affect anything (assuming you're not a problem worker).

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#140

Post by kscaldef »

brisance wrote: post #95
kscaldef wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there's also 2003-2005, where the stock increased several fold. It matters a lot where you pick your start and end points with tech companies in the last 15 years.

Yes, but if you read the article, all the acquisitions were done in 2005 onwards i.e. in the last 5 years. It was quite clear by then that the dot-com bubble had burst.

I did read the article. a) it's not as if Yahoo only started making acquisitions in 2005. b) 2003 was post-bubble.
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