What happens after Yahoo acquires you • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#121

Post by RyanMcGreal » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 12:12 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #43

SandB0x wrote: post #6

I once witnessed the moment when the messenger from the new management team comes over to explain to the brilliant engineers who built the company up from nothing about these "timesheets" they need to fill in, and how it's "really not a big deal". You could feel something dying over the course of the conversation. It was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, and I'm sure it's far worse if you are one o…

I think most acquisitions are to get the app's users, not to get the programmers or the code. Sure, there is the typical "you don't get your $250 million until you work here for a year", but that is just to help move your code to their servers. Then you leave and do Idea 2.0 and fund it yourself so that you don't need to be acquired. As for timesheets, all that stuff sucks, which is why you need to think of work as "…

> If some company wants to pay me a million dollars to fill out timesheets, that's their loss, not mine.

The timesheets are a symptom, not a cause, of the malaise that creeps over acquired startups. Timesheets correlate strongly with TPS Reports (don't forget the cover letter), long conference calls, labyrinthine procurement rules (sorry, you need to buy that widget from our preferred vendor), deeply nested org charts, zero-sum team performance reviews, and so on. It's an environment practically designed to kill productivity dead and drain the enthusiasm of the most dedicated employee.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#122

Post by mgkimsal » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 12:21 PM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #110

mgkimsal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at a few companies that required timesheets of software devs, and it was always weird/awkward at best. They never wanted just hours - they wanted to know what was done as well. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but the thing that bugged me was that it eventually was used against you. Mgr: "Oh.. well.. I see here you've only put in 38 hours on core projects this last week... this doesn't look too good…

Mgr could not say it directly, but he implied that timesheet must have 40 hours reported on the main project. How hard could that be to write it down like that? I understand that it's still unpleasant to deal with that.

So... lie. If they want dishonesty, just ask for it.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#123

Post by petervandijck » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 12:31 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #63

democracy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just do the time-sheets?

For one thing, because it is part of the way that your team is turned into a Resource. I never watched Star Trek, but I'm pop-culture literate, and my understanding is they use something called "nanoprobes" to effect the process of "assimilation". Once you're assimilated, business decisions that impact your team become an MBA math abstraction to the parent company leadership. Time sheets are BigCo's mechanism for map…

To timesheet software makers: you pretty much must have an "other" option in many of your dropdowns. That will solve a lot of problems right there. Here's why:

http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/2010/11/23/4827/data-c...

and

http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/archives/2010/11/27/4832/why-ge...

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#124

Post by PaulJoslin » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 12:39 PM UTC

jmathai wrote: post #67

tptacek wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The issue isn't that the founders leave. It's that the team dies.

I have to agree with hartror. If the founders leave then what are you left with? It sounds great in theory that a team can keep the motivation and innovation coming but ultimately that's the job of the founders - and founders aren't easily replaced.

Reddit's Founders left the company and since then it has grown to become bigger and better and exceed everyone's expectations.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#125

Post by toadi » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:08 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #118

I've just joined Flickr but I'm finding it awkward in some places, and the 'community' (at least that of extension/tool developers) seems to have died in 2008 or so. The upload tools are atrocious, no reliable way to download stuff for backups, the UI is unpolished and doesn't seem to get updated much. So, where do I go for online photo hosting / backup? Picasa / Web Albums isn't better, plus it's very desktop focuse…

My Pro account expired and never prolonged it.Haven't uploaded pictures for a very long time now.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#126

Post by dennisgorelik » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:09 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #122

dennisgorelik wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mgr could not say it directly, but he implied that timesheet must have 40 hours reported on the main project. How hard could that be to write it down like that? I understand that it's still unpleasant to deal with that.

So... lie. If they want dishonesty, just ask for it.

The manager wanted to see 40 hours reported against his main project.

He did not want dishonesty, but probably would not mind some tweaking in how work activities are categorised in a timesheet.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#127

Post by buntar » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:16 PM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #6

I once witnessed the moment when the messenger from the new management team comes over to explain to the brilliant engineers who built the company up from nothing about these "timesheets" they need to fill in, and how it's "really not a big deal". You could feel something dying over the course of the conversation. It was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, and I'm sure it's far worse if you are one o…

If I understand you right, the do not own the company (anymore)? So that would make them employees - no? I think it's pretty normal that employees explain what they are doing. Especially if they work in a specialized field that is hard for the management to understand fully. So it doesn't have to be mistrust or a form of repression against the engineers.

Yes I admit - I've always wanted time sheets. And they ARE a mixed blessing. They can have a strong negative influence on the "relationship" to your employees. I also have to learn my lesson(s). But I hold onto them for one reason: Timesheets were my revision history. When times are busy and the work is growing over your head, and you are sitting alone in your office, they can help you to understand what was done when.

They can become a very valuable historic document and planning instrument. Often the only way you can plan the future is understand the actions and errors you and your team made in the past,

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#128

Post by bane » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:16 PM UTC

SandB0x wrote: post #6

I once witnessed the moment when the messenger from the new management team comes over to explain to the brilliant engineers who built the company up from nothing about these "timesheets" they need to fill in, and how it's "really not a big deal". You could feel something dying over the course of the conversation. It was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen, and I'm sure it's far worse if you are one o…

Nothing takes the wind out of innovation faster than timesheets. It's a repeatable experiment. There are so many secondary effects that come from time recording that it breaks any organization that's designed to be novel and innovative. In some organizations, I've actually seen employees spend 20% of their time in a quest for charge codes instead of building innovative products.

It's literally like dropping the anchor from a sailboat under full wind.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#129

Post by renofwon » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:18 PM UTC

New companies get acquired. Old philosophies stay the same.

"But today it seems like the old is doing the plowing. Let’s stop that. Let’s build great companies that are here to fight, here to win, and here to stay until the next generation after us comes along and kicks all our asses. And again and again and again. That’s how better happens."

http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1927-the-next-generation-bend...

That quote is from nearly two years ago, but it's just as relevant today.

Re: What happens after Yahoo acquires you

#130

Post by bad_user » Wed, Feb 23, 2011, 1:37 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #122

dennisgorelik wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mgr could not say it directly, but he implied that timesheet must have 40 hours reported on the main project. How hard could that be to write it down like that? I understand that it's still unpleasant to deal with that.

So... lie. If they want dishonesty, just ask for it.

I used to do it. Incredibly easy too.

Like once, in a sprint that took 5 weeks, the last week was scheduled for bug-fixes / quality assurance. I did nothing for 3 and a half weeks, finished my assignments in 2 days, then for a whole week I just fixed a couple superficial bugs here and there.

Reported time: ~ 170 hours.

EDIT: to expand on this point, the secret is in how you do the initial estimation. Hugely overestimate the small / easy tasks (explain with technical babble if needed) , then underestimate the difficult tasks. So not only will you secure lots of free time, but you'll also be that genius that finishes difficult tasks in 1 hour :-)

Heck, you might even be promoted to management; that's how all the cool kids in management are doing it :)