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Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

wsj.com

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Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#131

Post by Kipters »

Symbiote wrote: post #89
alexis_fr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if they rename it and sell it under a new brand. I’d go for a “737 Neo”, only nerds can make the difference (even between a Boeing and an Airbus).

With Boeing in the news all the time, I've paid a lot more attention to the aircraft. For the 737/A320-size plane, it's now easy to tell: - If the plane has a nice, spacious interior, it's an Airbus. The flight will be quiet. - If the plane is crampt, it's a Boeing, and it will be a bit noisier. I still don't really think about it when booking the flight. Schedule and price are more important.

> I still don't really think about it when booking the flight. Schedule and price are more important.

To be honest I do: I often fly MIL-PMO and when possible I book Alitalia and easyJet flights, or Air Italy since they've been leasing two A319s from Bulgaria Air to replace their MAX 8s, rather than Ryanair specifically because their fleet is composed of Airbus aircrafts instead of Boeing (and also because Ryanair won't stop selling you stuff during the whole flight, worsening the noise situation)

I'm in MXP right now to catch a Ryanair flight and I just hope my ANC headphones won't abandon me mid-flight.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#132

Post by megablast »

ryanisnan wrote: post #19

I'm surprised that the market hasn't reacted more negatively towards Boeing regarding the Max 8 disaster. Airlines operate on razor-thin margins (~1 to 2%), and several users of the Max 8 have had significant portions of their fleet out of service as a result. Westjet [1], for example runs 124 planes currently. 13 of which are the Max 8. Over 10% of their fleet. Southwest Airlines [2], for example, runs 748 planes, 3…

Index funds are so big now, the market rarely moves down.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#134

Post by the-pigeon »

kayfox wrote: post #34
the-pigeon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban the aircraft. Criminally charge everyone involved in suppressing it's serious issues and forcing it through approval. Figure out how their processes become vulnerable to corruption and attempt to change them. The problem is of course the FAA doesn't want to hurt Boeing or the industry over this. But that strongly conflicts with their job. The hope at this point seems to be to drag it out until people forget.

Why, were talking about a fatal error in one small system on a huge and complex aircraft which is 90% the same as the previous iteration of this aircraft. We can fix these things. We should not be approaching engineering problems with emotional reactions to crashes. The airline industry is so incredibly safe because each crash is analyzed, the problems identified and solved. If two crashes mean we should scrap it, do…

My understanding is not that at all.

From what I've read the engines that were the whole point of the plan just didn't work physics wise because they were too big for the 737 frame that their required placement moved the center of gravity to a bad spot.

Instead of scraping the idea as they should've they did a software fix. You can't solve a bad aircraft design with software. You can patch it but it leaves you open to all sorts of issues.

Issues we've now clearly seen have killed people. Issues that people have claimed were known about (how would the engineers not know?) but were sweep under the rug in the name of profits.

When people knowingly endanger other's lives in the name of profits they should face a trial and be judged.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#136

Post by TheRealWatson »

keyle wrote: post #44
jamiek88 wrote: post #2

A lot of people thought this couldn’t happen. Difficult to overstate the enormity of this to the industry.

"too big to fail" they said. "whatever it takes they will fix it". I'm personally glad this model is getting shelved. You'd just have a bad taste flying in one of those regardless of tweaked the design is or how good the software is going to be. I'm also glad this is happening because it's a win for humanity and a loss for bureaucracy. I have full confidence that the next model will be rock solid and much better over…

They're not abandoning the model. At least not yet. They've been still assembling new planes even after March's grounding. The FAA told them to stop pretending the plane would be recertified soon. They are halting production until the mess gets sorted out and the planes can hopefully fly again.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#137

Post by sho_hn »

thehappypm wrote: post #110
hinkley wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Carolina and the 787 assembly process both looked like pretty poorly concealed union busting tactics to me. First you made a plane that doesn't require the massive gantry cranes to construct. Smaller portable equipment does a lot of the work. You can build new, cheaper facilities. Then you move things more or less to the opposite corner of the country, but closer to the new headquarters. Yeah, not suspicious at…

Any chance you could elaborate on this? I am not following this comment thread, not able to read between the lines.

I remember reading South Carolina has among the lowest union representation among relevant workers.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#138

Post by AnimalMuppet »

thbr99 wrote: post #135

What prevents them from selling the same broken stuff under a new name like Boeing 987 something and everyone will be cool with that ?

What prevents them from selling the same broken stuff is the FAA and the European authority doing their jobs.

They didn't before, you say? It appears that they did not. But they have shown signs of waking up lately. It seems at least somewhat reasonable to hope that they are no longer just a rubber stamp.

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#139

Post by spookthesunset »

mrtksn wrote: post #54
mrosett wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a 737 Max is orders of magnitude safer than a paraglider...

The performance and safety certification of the gliders seem more trustworthy than FAA and Boeing at this point. Also it is expected to get trained for the failure modes of the wing(unlike with the 737 max, apparently). Not a dangerous sport if you don’t take risks and have proper equipment.

You have to be kidding me. You are trying to assert that paragliding is safer than flying on a 737 MAX? Seriously?

How is this even a reasonable, thought out argument to work against? I downvoted you (and a lot of the other over-the-top reactionary nonsense from armchair “aviation experts”) but I figured I’d at least explain why.

Why is it every discussion on this site that involves any large company full of such over-the-top vilification? It’s so predictable and eye rollingly childish....

Re: Boeing to Suspend 737 Max Production in January

#140

Post by chrisseaton »

munk-a wrote: post #83
room271 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the airlines know that Boeing will never go under because the US government would (justifiably) never let that happen for strategic reasons.

Boeing has burned a lot of political and public capital recently so they may actually be in hot water over this. As a Canadian I'm still pretty outraged over the stupidity that the US carried out at Bombardier - Boeing basically told the US Government "Hey, those Canadians are better than us at everything" and then the US Government said "Oh, poor baby, well we'll just help the free market out with a 300% tariff." Th…

The US needs Boeing for military planes.
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