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US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

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Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#131

Post by ASalazarMX »

rolltiide wrote: post #37

Everytime I post about "green bubble" discrimination on hackernews, people act so surprised just like this father on twitter, and then talk about how vapid and fake people must be to care about that You know what people - iphone users - actually say when there isn't mixed company? "Android users, especially self-identified ones, lack social cues in many areas" It goes way beyond an android user letting people know ab…

> You know what people - iphone users - actually say when there isn't mixed company? "Android users, especially self-identified ones, lack social cues in many areas"

I'm just quoting the parent comment because it's hilarious. People can gauge your culture by what brand of phone you use? Can you buy a used iPhone and mingle with the cultured elite?

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#132

Post by redxdev »

danfang wrote: post #14
pcmoney wrote: post #6

It is interesting that the comments on the Twitter thread are "Just use WhatsApp". Which is basically iMessage but from Facebook. Comparing two, the vendor lock-in from Apple seems much preferable to the one with Facebook in light of the data scandals Facebook has and their ongoing effort to backdoor WhatsApp and integrate it with FB messenger etc. Also a group message is only as secure as its most weakly encrypted m…

I don't know if this is too self promoting, but I'm part of the YC SUS 2019 program and I'm building a product that addresses the issue of messaging lock in, as well as data privacy. I'm building Thread - an ad-free, private social network for groups. It's an alternative to Facebook (Messenger and WhatsApp), iMessage and GroupMe. It's the best way to connect with, share content to, and interact with the people in you…

Seeing as apps like Signal and Telegram already exist and seem to do exactly what you say... What is different about Thread?

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#133

Post by saagarjha »

damnyou wrote: post #63
CDSlice wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't buy apps from Apple, you buy them through Apple's app store (an important difference). You can use other voice assistants, you just can't set them as the default (which is a reasonable complaint) As an Android guy, I have to say that after trying Rokus, Fire TVs, and chromecasts the Apple TV is far from crappy and is honestly one of the best smart TV boxes. Anyway, you can also buy a lightning to HDMI adapt…

Of course you buy apps from Apple. That's why Apple, worth gobloads of money, can impose a 30% tax on independent app developers' labor. You can't even tell users how to subscribe without giving Apple a cut if you're on iOS. To any normal person that's an egregious abuse of power. Somehow people on HN just suck it up. Does WhatsApp force a particular voice assistant or app store on you? No? Apple's lock in is abusive…

> Does WhatsApp force a particular voice assistant or app store on you? No?

WhatsApp is not a mobile OS.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#134

Post by saagarjha »

damnyou wrote: post #26
pcmoney wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sell your data and is not secure. What $750 dongle? You can get an iPhone for like $300 these days. Forces itself into your life? How? Apple's data security is better than literally every other smart phone provider and its OS is fundamentally less intrusive than Android.

You are forced to buy apps from Apple if you want to use iMessage. Forced to use Apple's crappy voice software. Forced to use Apple's crappy TV box if you want to mirror your screen.

No, no, and no. You don’t need to do any of those things to use iMessage.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#135

Post by Terretta »

asclepi wrote: post #86
azinman2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but group chat over SMS is crap. Lots of Android phones as well don’t operate group SMS well, you get reduced resolution in photos and videos, can’t like/heart messages in the same way, no typing indicators, etc etc. Losing iMessage features sucks when you’re otherwise used to it.

That's subjective, but your observations are valid in many scenarios. The point I want to make is that Messages is not preventing them from including Android users because they don't have an iPhone, which is a general misunderstanding that I often observe when talking with Android users who use Whatsapp or similar and is also recurring here. If the Android user gets locked out, it's because a human decided to, not be…

> teens attach a lot more weight to the blue/green than they should

Have you looked at parental controls for carriers? Chats with green messages are in the log, chats with blue messages are not.

Depending how much they like their parents reading their messages, maybe teens aren’t attaching enough weight.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#136

Post by Terretta »

asclepi wrote: post #79
n8henry wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are locking their Android friends out of group messages, which are very popular among that age group.

The same applies. Messages can perfectly handle group messages that include a mix of iOS and Android users. Unlike Whatsapp, Messages doesn't require that every participant has Messages, nor that they have an iPhone. Messages will send each and every group message to every Android user in the group using SMS. But it will color the bubble green. And that's why they get locked out.

To be clear, it doesn’t go green because Android, it goes green because SMS.

iPhone users not signed into iCloud, Messages just does SMS, and they’ll turn it green too.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#137

Post by Terretta »

damnyou wrote: post #101
asclepi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. These kids didn't create the stigma for the green bubble. Popular culture did, big-money TV, movie and music productions did, and teens are the most susceptible. Try finding a recent US-produced music video or hit movie/TV series that shows a green bubble (or Android for that matter, as it still has a higher market share).

Yes, as I said, the kids are just picking up patterns from adults. Ultimately this is a larger societal problem of exclusion. America has taken it to its extreme, with racial segregation, redlining and the prison industrial complex. This iMessage nonsense is just a small and relatively benign symptom of the fundamental problem with America. As a left-libertarian who believes in inclusion, I'm sure not going to encour…

Plus, by ensuring your kids use SMS instead of iMessage, you can be assured of your own ‘inclusion’ in their text chat logs through the cell carrier’s parental log.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#138

Post by axaxs »

damnyou wrote: post #101
asclepi wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. These kids didn't create the stigma for the green bubble. Popular culture did, big-money TV, movie and music productions did, and teens are the most susceptible. Try finding a recent US-produced music video or hit movie/TV series that shows a green bubble (or Android for that matter, as it still has a higher market share).

Yes, as I said, the kids are just picking up patterns from adults. Ultimately this is a larger societal problem of exclusion. America has taken it to its extreme, with racial segregation, redlining and the prison industrial complex. This iMessage nonsense is just a small and relatively benign symptom of the fundamental problem with America. As a left-libertarian who believes in inclusion, I'm sure not going to encour…

You can't seriously be comparing iMessage usage to racial segregation. I refuse to believe this is a real comment.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#139

Post by Terretta »

anchpop wrote: post #42
word-reader wrote: post #10

It's not just about it "being green", the contrast between the text and the background is lower with the green SMS bubbles than the blue iMessage bubbles, making it harder to read. I guarantee you if the SMS bubbles were a shade or two darker green people wouldn't care as much.

Its pretty interesting that Apple, who pride themselves so much on form, chose that undeniably unpleasant shade of green.

In the beginning, the mnemonic was green texts cost money, blue texts are unlimited like blue sky.

Also that green was popular then.

Re: US Gen Z and the iMessage Lock-In

#140

Post by Terretta »

tguedes wrote: post #62
anchpop wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty interesting that Apple, who pride themselves so much on form, chose that undeniably unpleasant shade of green.

I think its on purpose. Associate an unpleasant color with Android so if you ever switch from iPhone to Android you know you will show up as the same unpleasant green on their phones.

It’s not Android, it’s SMS. Text an iPhone user who isn’t signed into iCloud, it uses SMS, and is green.
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