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Porsche Taycan [video]

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Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#131

Post by clouddrover »

endorphone wrote: post #129
clouddrover wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't remember Tesla ever claiming that their vehicles were the "fastest production car" Here is Tesla making that claim about the Model S. They say, "New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World": https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-pr... Here is Tesla making an even bigger claim about the future Tesla Roadster with no "production" qualifier. It's claimed to be "the quicke…

Quick != Fast. Quick in the automotive industry generally refers to acceleration. Fast refers to top speed. Tesla made a big deal about acceleration, but as I said they cede that there are much faster cars out there. The Tesla is very quick at accelerating. This is indisputable. Tesla made a benefit of electric motors, properly implemented, to push a high end sedan. Eh. That this whole discussion is full of people mo…

> Quick != Fast

Don't make excuses for Tesla's overblown marketing. Playing semantics is the lowest form of argument.

> Regarding the roadster...how is that plainly false?

Because non-production cars outperform it.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#132

Post by endorphone »

clouddrover wrote: post #131
endorphone wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick != Fast. Quick in the automotive industry generally refers to acceleration. Fast refers to top speed. Tesla made a big deal about acceleration, but as I said they cede that there are much faster cars out there. The Tesla is very quick at accelerating. This is indisputable. Tesla made a benefit of electric motors, properly implemented, to push a high end sedan. Eh. That this whole discussion is full of people mo…

> Quick != Fast Don't make excuses for Tesla's overblown marketing. Playing semantics is the lowest form of argument. > Regarding the roadster...how is that plainly false? Because non-production cars outperform it.

Semantics? They are very specific about what measure it is good at. You seem dead-set on pissing on Tesla for some reason.

Which non-production car outperforms the Roadster's claimed 2.1 second 0-60? Beyond those that don't really qualify as cars (e.g. with jet engines, etc), I'm not aware of any.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#133

Post by clouddrover »

endorphone wrote: post #132
clouddrover wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quick != Fast Don't make excuses for Tesla's overblown marketing. Playing semantics is the lowest form of argument. > Regarding the roadster...how is that plainly false? Because non-production cars outperform it.

Semantics? They are very specific about what measure it is good at. You seem dead-set on pissing on Tesla for some reason. Which non-production car outperforms the Roadster's claimed 2.1 second 0-60? Beyond those that don't really qualify as cars (e.g. with jet engines, etc), I'm not aware of any.

> You seem dead-set on pissing on Tesla for some reason.

No, I'm just objective and realistic.

> Which non-production car outperforms the Roadster's claimed 2.1 second 0-60?

The AMS Performance Alpha Omega Nissan R35 GT-R does 0 to 60 in 1.72 seconds: https://www.motor1.com/news/44845/ams-performance-alpha-omeg...

The Red Victor 2 does 0 to 60 in 0.9 seconds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Victor_2

Red Victor 3: http://cars.barcroft.tv/britains-fastest-street-legal-car-an...

The Grimsel from AMZ: https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/22/12004422/fastest-accelera...

Global Rallycross cars: https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a31137/how-g...

V8 era Formula 1 cars: https://jalopnik.com/this-chart-explains-why-formula-one-car...

> Beyond those that don't really qualify as cars (e.g. with jet engines, etc)

The Tesla Roadster is supposed to come with rocket thrusters:

https://electrek.co/2019/07/19/tesla-roadster-hover-test-spa...

So does the Roadster qualify as a car?

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#134

Post by Ididntdothis »

endorphone wrote: post #129
clouddrover wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't remember Tesla ever claiming that their vehicles were the "fastest production car" Here is Tesla making that claim about the Model S. They say, "New Tesla Model S Now the Quickest Production Car in the World": https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-pr... Here is Tesla making an even bigger claim about the future Tesla Roadster with no "production" qualifier. It's claimed to be "the quicke…

Quick != Fast. Quick in the automotive industry generally refers to acceleration. Fast refers to top speed. Tesla made a big deal about acceleration, but as I said they cede that there are much faster cars out there. The Tesla is very quick at accelerating. This is indisputable. Tesla made a benefit of electric motors, properly implemented, to push a high end sedan. Eh. That this whole discussion is full of people mo…

How many people understand your definition of quick vs fast? I bet not many. Tesla's marketing is misleading. They also did that with "auto-pilot" which makes people think the car is automatic.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#136

Post by Whatarethese »

nullwasamistake wrote: post #125
pmcollins wrote: post #5

It has a two-speed transmission, which should help with high-speed performance. https://insideevs.com/news/343827/porsche-taycan-2-speed-rea... But one of the advantages of an electric car for me is the possibility of no (variable) transmission. I don't want clutches that are constantly wearing down as I drive. For me this is not about money or maintenance headaches, but about elegance.

No gearing is bad for performance and inelegant. Tesla's cars should have a top speed over 220 given their power and acceleration. They're all limited to ~140 because no gearing. The motors start to get inefficient even around 80mph. Telsa's have amazing 0-60 performance but get beaten by many cars on a highway roll because of no gearing.

Mid 160’s actually

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#137

Post by threeseed »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #130
threeseed wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why people don't bring up the Mercedes EQC400. Reviews have been generally excellent so far.

Over $70k for a vehicle with 220 miles of range?

This isn't a computer. There is more to buying a car than a single spec.

Mercedes is a fantastic brand. The interior is premium and luxurious. You don't have to worry about service, support or the company going bankrupt. And it overall is a really well designed car.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#138

Post by nullwasamistake »

Whatarethese wrote: post #136
nullwasamistake wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No gearing is bad for performance and inelegant. Tesla's cars should have a top speed over 220 given their power and acceleration. They're all limited to ~140 because no gearing. The motors start to get inefficient even around 80mph. Telsa's have amazing 0-60 performance but get beaten by many cars on a highway roll because of no gearing.

Mid 160’s actually

Maybe, but that's above their rated specs. P100d starts out with 500 hp but also weighs nearly 5000 lbs. By 80mph back EMF has probably taken power down to about 300hp.

Essentially, at highway speeds, telsas are slower than the average pickup truck. Not as impressive as the 0-60 times

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#139

Post by ratsbane »

GhostVII wrote: post #127
ratsbane wrote: post #34

It all looks very nice, but is it just a copy of the Model 3 with a few upgraded bits (air suspension) and twice the price? Also, the interior seemed very dark - maybe just the pre-production version hiding some details or I'm just used to the glass Model 3 roof. Nice to see more manufacturers getting serious about this obvious electric-car future.

I mean it's a copy of the Model 3 in the same sense that a Porsche 911 is a copy of a BMW 3 series.

Disputing your statement...

The 911 was first produced in 1963 with an air-cooled flat 6 engine mounted aft of the rear axle.

The 3 series, first produced in 1975, is a front-engine car with a water-cooled straight-4 and -6 (most commonly) water-cooled engine mounted in front.

So the first 911 was made twelve years before the first 3 series, is structured completely differently and has completely different engine technology.

The Model 3 was released 2-3 years before the Taycan is expected out, and has essentially the same layout: floor battery with front and rear electric motors mounted in about the same spots. They both have four doors with the same deep swoop down of the roof over the rear seats, flattened hoods that dip below the line of the fenders, etc.

The Taycan looks more like a Model 3 than any other electric car around, and since the Model 3 came first, it's reasonable to describe the Taycan in Model 3 terms.

It's a good design, functionally and aesthetically, and I'm certainly not faulting Porsche for these design choices. I've owned a 911 before and I've always appreciated Porsches - they have made many great cars, and the Taycan might well be another one. I hope that it is. But it does look a lot like a Model 3.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#140

Post by GhostVII »

ratsbane wrote: post #139
GhostVII wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's a copy of the Model 3 in the same sense that a Porsche 911 is a copy of a BMW 3 series.

Disputing your statement... The 911 was first produced in 1963 with an air-cooled flat 6 engine mounted aft of the rear axle. The 3 series, first produced in 1975, is a front-engine car with a water-cooled straight-4 and -6 (most commonly) water-cooled engine mounted in front. So the first 911 was made twelve years before the first 3 series, is structured completely differently and has completely different engine tec…

I just don't really see any similarity between the model 3 and the Taycan other than them both being electric, they are completely different classes of cars. They have the same layout because that is the most obvious layout for a 4 door AWD electric car (i-pace has same layout too). The Taycan is a luxury sports car with good handling and the ability to run at full performance for a long time. The model 3 is a practical car with a fairly poor interior, poor handling, and great acceleration and range.
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