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The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

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Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#131

Post by kranner »

mcherm wrote: post #128
kranner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extreme persecution complex I really don't see the relation between delusional thinking and consuming narcotics. Can you explain what you mean? I've seen people high on narcotics; they seem loopy and sleepy, but not particularly susceptible to…

I believe the connection is that people addicted to narcotics are famously insistent about self justification, even when it is obviously baseless.

More so than for other forms of addiction? And this doesn't even seem related to their addiction.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#132

Post by yegle »

chihuahua wrote: post #77
jedberg wrote: post #17

I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…

The self-checkout at Costco is a godsend. I usually buy 2-5 items at Costco, and the self-checkout allows me to avoid standing in line behind people with overflowing shopping carts. I can pay in about 30 seconds and get out of there.

I find it very annoying to use the self checkout in Costco especially if you are buying bulky items. They force you to place scanned items on a scale which isn't always feasible.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#133

Post by throwaway07Ju19 »

“There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.”

The above sentiment is the basis of one of my favorite comedy bits by Bill Burr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxINJzqzn4w

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#134

Post by Animats »

The machine learning solution:

* LaneHawk - identifies items in bottom of car [1]

* Everseen - watches object move through a checkout [2] and reports if they are not scanned. In use at Walmart and "5 of the 10 top retailers" now.

* StopLift - also watches checkouts. Recently purchased by NCR.

This problem is on its way to being solved.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYd7CcInZ28 [2] https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/20/18693324/walmart-ai-camer... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4VR2z2n5Ec

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#135

Post by nfoz »

millstone wrote: post #90

What level of shoplifting do the Amazon Go stores encounter? A lot less I would guess. Napster was "overcut" by the iTunes Music Store, and then streaming finished off music piracy. You really can combat stealing through better purchasing experiences.

Napster was shutdown for copyright infringement in 2001.

The iTunes Music Store opened in 2003.

The convenient-online-store model only succeeded because of the success of the legal attacks against file-sharing.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#136

Post by tomhoward »

SantalBlush wrote: post #120
brigandish wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fair but we shouldn't conflate the judgement of other's actions with choosing how we ourselves act. If Amazon is not held accountable for fraudulent business practices should I then steal? No. They've no relevance to each other, I am responsible for my actions.

Applying a double standard between people is in itself unethical; that is my entire point. We can all choose to live by Amazon's rules, where maximizing profit without regard to ethics is acceptable, or we can live by our conventional sense of morality (which is what I want.) But insofar as we hold ordinary people to a different standard than Amazon, we are behaving unethically. The shoplifting is not central to my p…

Your whole point hinges on the claim that Amazon routinely and deliberately acts fraudulently and is never held to account.

But Amazon and companies like them are absolutely held accountable for legal breaches all the time. Here's just one recent example: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2017/05/...

Companies are under constant scrutiny by various bodies and agents including regulators, consumer protection groups, media outlets, unions, review sites, consumer word of mouth - not to the simple market reality that if too many customers feel defrauded, they'll soon stop being customers.

It's a huge leap to argue that since some counterfeit goods have been sold via their platform, blatant theft from them or other companies is therefore justifiable, particularly when you don't mention that those counterfeit goods were sold by third parties, and that Amazon has a formal process to refund customers who have been sold counterfeit goods and to bar such sellers from their platform: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/201165970

We all learned as children that theft and dishonesty is wrong, because in families and societies alike, things quickly break down if it becomes widespread.

It's pretty simple.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#138

Post by tjoff »

RHSeeger wrote: post #105
optimiz3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Trying to not leave the world a worse place at the end of the day means not taking extra fruit at the self-checkout.

I think that phrase is used a little more freely than it should be. It is wrong to imprison people against their will; yet we do it because those people do/will do wrong things. Two wrongs don't make a right in that case either, but we feel the second wrong is justified because of the first.

It's not wrong to imprison people against their will. It's part of the societal contract.

Not imprisoning someone when you should is, however, wrong.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#139

Post by conception »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #26

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…

I wonder if this person siphons gas or steals candy from self serve gas stations as well. People are tremendously bad at change.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#140

Post by mb_72 »

mc32 wrote: post #65
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #26

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…

Obviously they’d rather the company hire more workers and charge them s little extra. At least in some parts of the countryside it’s nice to see farmers’ stands with produce and a pay jar where people “self checkout”. I ack that companies take advantage of people but that does not grant people a right to be dishonest themselves and become that which they bemoan. If you think they’re ripping you off, go to the the mar…

> Obviously they’d rather the company hire more workers and charge them s little extra.

It's happened the other way around - self checkout didn't exist, and when it was introduced prices didn't drop even though employment expenses are now lower. There isn't even an incentivising discount for using the self-checkout.

I've seen people have no end of problems with self-checkout systems, and would rather I have an experienced and 'expert' human dealing with the scanning and check-out part that I can also interact with.

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