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Assholes: A Probing Examination

nomachetejuggling.com

131–140 of 197 posts

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#131
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would informing people about the importance of testing make you look like an asshole? You could do it in a polite and helpful way, instead of being an asshole about it.

Well, the article in question called it an asshole thing to do. >Publicly calling out and blaming others

Automation takes this and a whole class of problems out of the interpersonal domain. Failed tests make the build fail. Who ever breaks the build buy donuts for the team. Easy, solved and no personal issues. Include a linter in the build, incorrect formatting fails the build. The team decided on the standard format (tabs vs spaces, 4/2 spaces, brace same line or next line etc). More donuts. No arguments because linting rules were decided by the team. New members adapt.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#132

At least 10 thousand years of civilization, and we are still trying to figure out each other and ourselves. Why is "Don't be a dick" so hard to codify? All these religions, ethics and philosophical systems, and all this technology, convenience and comforts.. and we still have so much friction in interacting with others of our own species. The best solution we seem to have found is leaving each other alone. I've come…

Multiple hypothesis I can quickly think of, I wouldn't know which ones are correct or not :

- "Don't be a dick" doesn't offer any advantage for one's genome transmission, meaning any genetic base to being a dick will get transmitted no problem.

- Being a dick propagates, while not being one doesn't, meaning the society has a whole becomes "dick-ish by default" (much like entropy, with dick-iness) unless this is actively acted on.

- Religions, culture, nations, companies... actively encourage people to being dicks to everybody not in their group, to preserve and expand the group, meaning we're actively trained to being dicks by our social environment

- Our brains default to "everyone is an enemy unless proven otherwise" , meaning people will tend to be dicks by default.

- Not being a dick makes one socially vulnerable, so it's only achievable in very safe contexts and not by default

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#133
post #99

Hello, my name is Cole and I can be an asshole. The definition posted of an asshole casts a very wide net making discussion difficult. Diversity is important and it isn't just about sex and skin color. People act differently, people have different priorities, confidence varies, life situations outside of work alters behavior as do medical conditions and treatments. Different cultures even in this country value vastly…

Oh and the other thing I didn't see anyone address is teaching "victims" the right Ju-Jitsu for dealing with (intentional) assholes / bullying - the mindset of don't let anyone make you a victim. I had the "good fortune" of having an internship years ago with a tyrant. This person loved publicly shaming the interns, among a whole bunch of other toxic behaviour, continual needling etc. etc. Their life was a mess, marr…

    > ...the most effective solution is very simple...
No, definitely not simple.

These people have intrinsic deep-seated personality defects.

Sure, personality changes do occur in life but they take A LONG TIME, and barring trauma, aren't precipitated by any single event, especially something as as simple as people creating humiliation in a workplace. In other words, you can't "change" an assh*le or force them to curb their personality to the point where it's not noticeable.

You either grow a thick skin, avoid them, force them out, or what most orgs do, nothing-- just wait for their behavior/value ratio to cross a line that precipitates expulsion from the group.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#134

Hello, my name is Cole and I can be an asshole. The definition posted of an asshole casts a very wide net making discussion difficult. Diversity is important and it isn't just about sex and skin color. People act differently, people have different priorities, confidence varies, life situations outside of work alters behavior as do medical conditions and treatments. Different cultures even in this country value vastly…

This is why i really dislike the diversity-crowd (straw-man here...). The only result were some laws obligating people to explicitly name the minorities of the month. The only proponent of this is the HR department. Nah, not really, but they have to.

The diversity crowds achievement was to give corporations more power. If I were belong to a minority, I wouldn't dislike the diversity crowd, I would hate them with unrequited passion.

There is a difference between equality and equity. There is also a conflict between equity and freedom. But these are discussion that will never again surface in the next 10 years, because of the diversity crowd.

The straw-man I describe are giant assholes in my opinion. And I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them. Because they are also toxic.

edit: Further more, I think people defining an allegedly large and epidemic group of people as untenable, are probably assholes. Unbelievable...

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#135

This article is overly fixated on overt assholery. Much of the worst asshole behavior I've encountered has been done by people who are outwardly polite and high functioning and have often never had a cross word for anyone. I would much rather get a tersely worded group email (ooo) than have to do someone else's job for them. Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT…

"not doing your job" is incompetence, there might be many reasons for that ranging from being promoted too quickly without enough support, life-hardships that occlude performance, or just NOT UNDERSTANDING what one's job actually is (yes, it happens).

Sure, it sometimes happens that someone feels so entitled that they can justify loafing and pretend-work, that's definitely a-hole behavior, but those other explanations are far more common.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#136
post #67

This article is overly fixated on overt assholery. Much of the worst asshole behavior I've encountered has been done by people who are outwardly polite and high functioning and have often never had a cross word for anyone. I would much rather get a tersely worded group email (ooo) than have to do someone else's job for them. Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT…

> the root of the situation is that (a) someone isn't doing their actual job in a remotely competent way Not really. I've worked with several assholes. They were all extremely assertive, and usually also very competent (but I've found also the utterly incompetent ones). The problem is that even if they're right 95% of the time, the 5% of the times they're wrong they force everybody along the wrong path, because their…

Sounds like their bias is that they're right (regardless of ego), and if they're right 95% of the time, I'd say that bias is pretty accurate...

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#137
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would informing people about the importance of testing make you look like an asshole? You could do it in a polite and helpful way, instead of being an asshole about it.

Well, the article in question called it an asshole thing to do. >Publicly calling out and blaming others

    > the article in question called it an asshole thing to do [publicly calling out and blaming others]
It's all about how it's done. In the case described above, an explanation of what happened, why it happened, how to avoid it in the future, and perhaps a little humor would be positively received by everyone involved.

On the other hand, someone could very well have the exact same situation and make it into a-hole incident by shaming the interns and making them reconsider even being there.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#138
Naive. The author has no concept of how psychologically damaging these ideas can be in the hands of a passive aggressive HR team. Put the genie back in the bottle.

Values are good; they can rally a team. Feedback is good. What's missing is that feedback is never a two way street; there is always part of the company which is effectively immune from critique, by virtue of their position and rank. And this is where the psychopaths gather.

Bullshit happens. Senior executives frequently re-write the corporate narrative to justify developments. Sometimes this is for the greater good, other times it merely pads their own situation. Nobody is incorruptible - when you have people, you have bad actors.

Now lets look at how this is communicated.

As a society, we're pretty good at dealing with getting screwed over by assholes. The interactions are mercifully short - most assholes have learned to give the bad news and get offstage as quickly as possible. Some beer is consumed, some words are said, and life goes on.

Most importantly: the recipient of the "dick move" is able to process and recognize it for what it is, a self centered pile of shit inflicted by their superiors.

There is minimal lasting damage.

Now these fuckers.... would use values to rationalize all significant events. From the bully pulpit of their role in HR and senior leadership. With licence to lie, omit, and otherwise distort facts to support their narrative. While the employee was bound by an "integrity policy" and a "code of conduct" that required "professionalism". Not that these are bad things, but when one side can lie - and the other cannot call them on it... you're going to have a bad day.

So basically - all of these "discussions" devolve into a fucked up version of a therapy session where the other person really doesn't have your best interests at heart. Where you are directly questioned and attacked on your values and the degree to which they align with whatever your inquisitor currently wants. And all of this deranged feedback is carefully calibrated to operate at a very personal level - there's nothing wrong with us, all of this is a function of your personal deficiencies.

I survived. Got a great job offer from an ex-boss. And left.

My kids and wife commented a month later: "Wow, Dad finally started smiling again". Yeah. That bad. Literally fucked with my own perceptions of my self-worth.

A lesser person would have been driven into therapy.

This is not how a workplace should operate.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#139
I'm pretty sure one or both of Elon Musk or Donald Trump (both exceptionally successful individuals admired by many) would be judged as massive assholes by almost any person. So I'm not sure "being an asshole" is really a good reason to disqualify someone...

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#140

Excellent article. I hope managers read it. The toughest problem I've had w.r.t. assholes was convincing managers that certain people were in fact assholes and they were not essential to the company's survival. Assholes are extremely good at kissing up and shitting down. And managers don't like to hear they've been manipulated.

The a--hole royalty that I've encountered defeat every measure offered in this article precisely because of the effectiveness of their kissing up and sh---ing down strategy. Actively sabotaging literally every decent person they encounter (because the other people don't share their 'culture'), turning every item in their punchlist into a tool of political conquest where the rules are: make your victims look bad by any means possible, and then the kicker-- when they choose to turn on their social skills, expressing a highly superior feeling of confidence and ability to persuasively blame all the other a--holes for their own tyrranical behavior.

No, when you get a royal a--hole into a large organization, I really don't have much hope for average managers with typical business training to do anything but watch.

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