American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too • Hacker News Board

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#131

Post by xg15 » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #60

To me this is just a distraction. Yes there's a hardware camera. I will bet some money that they have not been used nefariously by AA or SQ. Some are raging about the non-existant theoretical privacy violation (again, not 100% non-existant, but I will bet money there's no surveillance through this camera), meanwhile we are ignoring actual privacy violations being done by e.g. Facebook or Twitter, or the millions of a…

I think the more important point here is the normalisation happening.

> More and more devices have cameras built into them. From smartphones to tablets to Alexa-powered smart speakers, cameras have become the norm, rather than the exception, for most hardware

From a tech side, I can understand the coolness factor of equipping all your devices with microphones and cameras - however, even though this particular example didn't do much, I think we're i for a lot of risks if this trend continued.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#132

Post by PavlovsCat » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #2

How can you have privacy concerns in a completely public space?

No, the burden is on you. How can you have a concern with people not being spied on in public?

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#133

Post by leovander » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #8

Most of these are just COTS Android tablets. When they reboot the IFE, you sometimes see the Android soft home/menu button on the bottom. It's easy enough to repair, too -- just apply some opaque tape to the camera.

Yup, most of them are Android tablets and I believe all the media that is served is stored on a central server via SQLlite on the aircraft.

Knew someone that worked for a company that builds those in flight experiences, and that's where everyone would get their dump of "insert airline" watermarked movies for the month.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#134

Post by kelnos » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #119

netsharc wrote: post #60

To me this is just a distraction. Yes there's a hardware camera. I will bet some money that they have not been used nefariously by AA or SQ. Some are raging about the non-existant theoretical privacy violation (again, not 100% non-existant, but I will bet money there's no surveillance through this camera), meanwhile we are ignoring actual privacy violations being done by e.g. Facebook or Twitter, or the millions of a…

> meanwhile we are ignoring actual privacy violations being done by e.g. Facebook or Twitter, or the millions of ad networks This is becoming a form of digital whataboutism and false equivalence. I can't read comments about seatback airline cameras without being reminded of these other "violations" as though they are related. Maybe the collective "we" are ignoring them because "we" don't consider them privacy violati…

I'm always torn on whataboutism. On one hand, yes, these are all problems that should be addressed, and you shouldn't dismiss one just because there are some worse problems elsewhere.

But I think a lot of what we sometimes label whataboutism is just people marveling how people in general are just so terrible at risk assessment that they'll latch onto minimal-risk items and get outraged about them, while at the same time engaging in higher-risk activities in the same context.

But there's also the fact that the "what about"-er has no idea what the parent poster is concerned with; saying they're "ignoring actual privacy violations being done by e.g. Facebook or Twitter, or the millions of ad networks" might be entirely false. Maybe they're concerned about both things.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#135

Post by tensor » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

filmgirlcw wrote: post #22

I understand why airlines and other industries are using off-the-shelf parts; I actually prefer this because it gets us closer to more modular IFE systems like what Delta/GoGo are doing on the A220, which means airlines can conceivably upgrade their IFE systems more frequently and at lower costs. What I don’t understand is why there aren’t commodify parts available sans cameras, given the myriad of use-cases and the…

Personally, I want cameras on these things. It's an airplane, not a private space. And a camera is useful for all sorts of things from video conferencing to gesture based interaction.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#136

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #128

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #116

They already take a high resolution back scatter shot of my genitals on the way in, what's a little more humiliation among friends? If they want to spend 6 hours watching me make pained expressions as I shift and turn and feel the bits that make me human slowly slip away, leaving me a crippled, grunting inhuman beast by the time I get out of the aluminum can full of other peoples farts, I guess they are welcome to it…

I've yet to go through any of these machines since they were implemented. I have opted out every flight, every time.

In that case they don't have a picture, but they do know what they feel like, and if they don't, it just takes one ornery TSA agent for it to happen.

It's a thoroughly miserable process no matter what way you slice it.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#137

Post by devinmrn » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #106

devinmrn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the expectation of privacy varies from person to person! Since members of the general public are in close proximity I generally wouldn't consider an airplane cabin a place where I could have a reasonable expectation of privacy. In places that are intentionally restricted from view by others, like my own home, a hotel room, etc. I'd have an expectation of privacy.

People by and large keep to themselves on airplanes. If someone was recording you with their cell phone for the duration of the flight, I promise you, you wouldn't like it. The resultant footage wouldn't particularly be any different than if it was recorded by the seatback in front of you, though. If I'm going to, say, a concert, or especially a taping of a TV show, I have a much higher expectation of ending up in so…

I wouldn't like it and if I noticed I'd politely ask them to stop. However, (and I'm not a lawyer) I don't think it'd be illegal or even unethical. If someone was recording me napping on a plane I'd treat it the same way as if I was napping under a tree in a national park. It would be a non issue for me.

Privacy is something I control by not exposing sensitive information in areas where recording is a possibility.

I already take precautions when flying by not working on my laptop or having sensitive conversations with family or coworkers.

I generally don't consider information on where my gaze is looking, facial expressions, or if I'm awake or asleep sensitive information unless I'm in a private space like my home, a hotel room, or a bathroom.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#138

Post by tensor » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #34

cco wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"To continue watching your in-flight movie, please watch this ad, note looking away from the screen will pause the ad while we wait for your gaze to return." That is an entirely realistic scenario, patents have been granted for this already. Regardless of an expectation of privacy it is potentially a terrible UX as well.

Spotify already does that, except with volume. If you turn down your volume too much on your phone, it pauses the advert and demands to raise volume to continue.

But you can pay spotify to have no ads, which makes spotify good in my book.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#139

Post by filmgirlcw » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #126

kortilla wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delta has live tv but I think it comes in from a non-WiFi path because it seems to come and independently of the WiFi service.

It's definitely satellite TV. Some planes have been outfitted with it since JetBlue debuted it in like 2000.

Yup, it's satellite TV. JetBlue pioneered it (and Delta started it with their JetBlue competitor Song in the early '00s IIRC) and some other carriers have it too.

JetBlue uses the NYC satellite feed for its local stations (FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC) and I think Delta's might rotate (it's def not the local Atlanta stations) and like satellite, if weather is bad/obstructed, your live TV sucks/goes out.

Re: American Airlines Has Cameras in Their Screens Too

#140

Post by gruez » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

deathanatos wrote: post #82

techer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends in what country you are. Don't need your permission in the USA or the UK.

IANAL. In the USA, it depends on jurisdiction and the circumstances. For example, CA is a "two-party consent" state, meaning that to record another party requires their knowledge and consent in some circumstances. This case (a camera in the back of an airline seat) is a bit on the line: the space isn't terribly private (it's a row of seats on an airline), yet a private conversation might be had in a low voice between…

>For example, CA is a "two-party consent" state

IANAL, but AFAIK one/two party consent only applies to private conversations (eg. phone calls). Public conversations are fair game in all jurisdictions.