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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

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Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#131

Post by Taniwha »

I do occasional business in China and Taiwan, the sex thing has never come up ... But threating, drinking and general socialising around business in Chinese, and more generally in Asian culture is something that I think is really healthy ...

In the west we negotiate a deal, maybe voices get raised a bit, people argue, we do a deal, people go away a bit pissed ...

In China all that arguing still happens but after we go out and socialise, we drink and eat together, and we become friends so we can work together on this thing we've agreed to do together

As I said I think the Chinese way, at least the way I've experienced, is more healthy

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#132

Post by bpizzi »

SolarNet wrote: post #127
bpizzi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off-topic - well, to be fair, it may have been the other way: the man could have been the one saying "he'll cheat on us", and the women telling him "it's ok". Women are as prone to cheating as men. Women are not inherently faultless just because of their gender.

In a more equal world like the western one we both (probably) live in, absolutely. In a place with strong gender roles (like the one in the article), being successful and female means being purposefully contrarian and acutely aware of gender roles; hence I would trust a female Chinese businesswoman more by default than their male counterparts because she operates in a gendered society. My point is we have strong evid…

Thank you for the nuances, I wanted to spell it somehow, but didn't find the words (westerner too but not native english speaker).

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#133

Post by orwin »

bpizzi wrote: post #73
PakG1 wrote: post #39

A few female entrepreneurs, however, explicitly reject the values pushed by businessmen. “One of my husband’s business friends got married just two years ago,” explained Li, in her early 40s, who co-owns a steel business with her husband, “We went to his wedding. But when we hosted an event last year, he came with a young girl who was obviously his mistress. I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after…

A bit off-topic - well, to be fair, it may have been the other way: the man could have been the one saying "he'll cheat on us", and the women telling him "it's ok". Women are as prone to cheating as men. Women are not inherently faultless just because of their gender.

You are probably right, with the same opportunities and power, women should cheat as much as men.

But if it was the wife cheating in public, i'm pretty sure no one would have made a deal with her and her husband would have been warned within the hour. Women are not faultless, but those in power have to hide their faults and vulnerabilities harder than men.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#134

Post by dagw »

lagadu wrote: post #106
kerng wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is not uncommon, even nowadays. Noone likes to admit it because being politically correct and stuff. Even at company parties at big corporations, some Sales and Marketing folks tend go a bit overboard - and employees hooking up with each isn't unusual during such festivities either.

> Even at company parties at big corporations, some Sales and Marketing folks tend go a bit overboard - and employees hooking up with each isn't unusual during such festivities either. Heh, you should see company parties in northern Europe.

I think that's largely a myth or at least an exaggeration. I've worked in both Norway and Sweden (and currently live in Sweden) and I've never seen an office party get even close to going way overboard. Office parties in the US and the UK I've seen have been 'worse'.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#135

Post by crypt1d »

watwut wrote: post #123
crypt1d wrote: post #115

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.

For me it personally, stories like this make it impossible to buy the theory that the world or work are meritocracy or fair. It is not so much that it is politically incorrect, it is more that you can't simultaneously claim that this is how it is and is ok while also claim that everything is totally fair and demographic composition is not influenced by any of this. Not just gender, also religious as it selects people…

Anyone claiming we live in a fair and just society is either asleep and in a fairy tale land, or is pushing an agenda. World is a dangerous place, full of things you may not like, not approve or are simply disgusting.

We should certainly work towards improving ourselves but I dont think we can grow unless we learn to respect each other's differences, even when we dont like them.

Certainly nobody is coercing anyone into going to strip clubs to close business deals and you can always walk away. Of course you will be walking away from a business opportunity but life is full of hard choices. We don't get to change the rules of the game just because we don't like the outcome.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#136

Post by sumedh »

Taniwha wrote: post #131

I do occasional business in China and Taiwan, the sex thing has never come up ... But threating, drinking and general socialising around business in Chinese, and more generally in Asian culture is something that I think is really healthy ... In the west we negotiate a deal, maybe voices get raised a bit, people argue, we do a deal, people go away a bit pissed ... In China all that arguing still happens but after we g…

> the sex thing has never come up

probably because the other person knew/sensed that you are not interested?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#137

Post by sumedh »

tomp wrote: post #120
donquichotte wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is you. From TFA: "“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“" Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.

I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.

> I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.

What about the ones who were forced into it?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#138

Post by akudha »

pastage wrote: post #99
ryandrake wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely in the past, even at seemingly boring engineering companies. You used to hear about all kinds of stuff going on in the office. People getting blackout drunk at company Christmas parties, drugs in the restroom, co-workers banging each other in the conference rooms.. then all of a sudden, you didn’t hear about it anymore. Whoosh, it was gone! I entered the workplace as this stuff seemed to be dying down and just…

Partying hard is away to bond and form a brotherhood of exclusiveness. It's a relief not having to bother with that anymore, it just leads to misery in my opinion. Sure that brotherhood feeling can feel great, but it's so easy to take advantage of if you know anything about group dynamics, just takes one psychopath or an experienced player. I'm really glad alcohol isn't an requirement anymore.

There are other ways to bond than partying. I've never had a drop of alcohol in my life, I don't even go to christmas parties. And for the past year, I am working remote. Still, ended up making a few friends from work, despite not being the "fun" guy.

I too am glad alcohol isn't a requirement anymore, though I still get weird looks.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#139

Post by Taniwha »

sumedh wrote: post #136
Taniwha wrote: post #131

I do occasional business in China and Taiwan, the sex thing has never come up ... But threating, drinking and general socialising around business in Chinese, and more generally in Asian culture is something that I think is really healthy ... In the west we negotiate a deal, maybe voices get raised a bit, people argue, we do a deal, people go away a bit pissed ... In China all that arguing still happens but after we g…

> the sex thing has never come up probably because the other person knew/sensed that you are not interested?

Or possibly because our hot shot Mandarin speaking negotiator isn't a guy ...

Or in another case, when I do business there on my own because my excellent usual Chinese buyer/facilitator is also not a guy

But also I suspect that while that sort of may be common it's not universal

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#140

Post by mhroth »

I'm surprised at that amount of surprise in this thread. I have a good friend who is (was) in sales. He had to get out once he realised that he'd turned into a full-blown alcoholic and that he'd wouldn't be able to do business if he at all tried to slow down. Heavily dependent on the industry though.
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