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AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

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Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#131

Post by dEnigma »

bmelton wrote: post #109
komali2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of it in an engineery sense - if the edge case is possible, it will happen. Maybe that works for software engineering, where it's a good idea to pause a release in case someone uses scripts to send a shitload of bad requests to our API and crashes a server because of our bug or whatever, but I understand that that doesn't work 1:1 with the real world, where it doesn't make sense to not have the aviation indus…

> if the edge case is possible, it will happen By that argument, you will: * beat your wife * murder an enemy * shoot up a school full of children * commit arson * jump bail * evade arrest * die in a hail of bullets So, assuming all those eventualities, why shouldn't we just put you to death now? To spare you the rhetorical exercise, the answer is because we don't punish you for the things you might do, but only puni…

I think we're getting a little sidetracked here. What the grandparent wanted to say was just that the corset of laws that binds a judge might not be as tight as you think; hence e.g. activist judges.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#132

Post by icebraining »

paulcole wrote: post #119
jandrese wrote: post #8

Yet more media consolidation. And this one has the inherent conflicts of interest you get when a distributor buys out a producer. And of course the idea of protecting the public interest isn't a thing anymore in DC.

> And this one has the inherent conflicts of interest you get when a distributor buys out a producer. I'm not sure I understand the conflicts. Isn't Netflix essentially doing the same thing? Consolidating production and distribution?

Yes, and there are conflicts of interest, as Netflix will push their own stuff over their competitors'. The major difference is that ISPs have a much stronger control of their distribution market, which they can use to gain an advantage on the production market (what's usually called "abuse of monopoly power").

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#133

Post by mattnewton »

mehrdadn wrote: post #115
jld wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The merger is set to close next Monday. DOJ can file for a stay, but the judge warned them that would be unwise. I think the DOJ will just take it as a loss.

> DOJ can file for a stay, but the judge warned them that would be unwise. What would they have to lose?

Taxpayer dollars I guess? Still don’t like the tone of that though.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#134

Post by mattnewton »

jandrese wrote: post #126
paulcole wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this one has the inherent conflicts of interest you get when a distributor buys out a producer. I'm not sure I understand the conflicts. Isn't Netflix essentially doing the same thing? Consolidating production and distribution?

Netflix is your ISP?

I don’t think time warner is an isp anymore

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#135

Post by vokep »

SrslyJosh wrote: post #130
_rpd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely shameful. AI judges can't come soon enough.

Where do you think the training data for AI judges would come from?

evaluations of historical judgements made and what the consequences were.

How to define good/bad consequences becomes the problem then, but thats the nature of it.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#136

Post by anonymous5133 »

mxschumacher wrote: post #122
jadedhacker wrote: post #107

Media consolidation infographic from 2011. Back then, six companies controlled 90% of the market. I wonder where we're at now? http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-...

through the rise of original content production from Amazon and Netflix and the overall shift to internet delivery (including Youtube and Podcasts) I'd argue we're in a less concentrated situation today.

Completely agree as well.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#137

Post by jaredklewis »

ajonnav wrote: post #89

> The judge indicated during the trial that he wasn’t buying Shapiro’s projection. After his testimony, Leon said he was "confused." Further explanation from Shapiro didn’t help. "I’m not sure I got it, but it’s too late and too hot to belabor the point any further," the judge said. Amazing on so many different levels. (Shapiro is the economist whose model the DOJ based their case off of).

Well let's not grab our pitchforks just yet.

I'm sure if this was a thread discussing Judge Leon's 2013 opinion that NSA metadata collection violated the 4th amendment, HN would be singing his praises. But in this case he's approved a merger we don't like so he must be a total idiot or (as is being suggested further down in the thread) was bribed and has family members that will be getting board AT&T seats pretty soon. Such is HN's fickle heart.

Unsurprisingly, the case involved more nuance than could be contained in a Bloomberg article, so if you really want to understand the arguments involved, you'll have to slog through the 200 page opinion: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-2511opinion.p...

I'm generally depressed by the state of broadband competition in the US, but that doesn't automatically mean that Shapiro's "increased leverage harm" theory that vertical content-programmer-distributor integration will raise prices is correct. And even if it is intuitively correct or turns out to be right, it doesn't mean that we currently have sufficient supporting data for it to be a convincing argument to the courts.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#138

Post by sigfubar »

vokep wrote: post #135
SrslyJosh wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the training data for AI judges would come from?

evaluations of historical judgements made and what the consequences were. How to define good/bad consequences becomes the problem then, but thats the nature of it.

Such evaluations are useless as a training set because they inherit the biases of whoever wrote the evaluations. Of course, if fairness isn’t a desired property, feel free to carry on.

Re: AT&T Cleared by Judge to Buy Time Warner

#139

Post by jonreem »

paulcole wrote: post #119
jandrese wrote: post #8

Yet more media consolidation. And this one has the inherent conflicts of interest you get when a distributor buys out a producer. And of course the idea of protecting the public interest isn't a thing anymore in DC.

> And this one has the inherent conflicts of interest you get when a distributor buys out a producer. I'm not sure I understand the conflicts. Isn't Netflix essentially doing the same thing? Consolidating production and distribution?

Under this logic I think so, it would be the same problem.
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