Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 213 posts

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#131

Post by Iv »

8note wrote: post #125
Iv wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make no mistake: the opioid epidemics is pretty much a self-inflicted harm. It is what happens when you underfund actually useful drug programs and let corruption (relabelled 'lobbying') by pharmaceutical companies run unchecked. So yes, sure, China will make business if they can, but they are not "out there to get you".

in both cases, it could be said as "out to make money" not "out to get you" it just so happens that it's always very profitable to sell opium.

I remember a businessman from Hong-Kong, 15 years ago, telling me that as soon as USA realizes China is better at business than they are, they will switch overnight to hating capitalism and free trade.

At the time I thought it was a bit exaggerated.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#132

Post by jewelry »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #109
nol13 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also obesity is bad for you. Or just assume China will fix its air in 10 years while Americans (and Chinese) keep getting fatter? Lotta ways you can work these numbers!

I don’t know. They said it would be fixed in 2015 back in 2010. The fix is always 5 years away given whatever the current 5 year plan is. Also, China has a ridiculously high smoking rate, with no end in sight for it really. On the other hand, smoking rates in the USA have fallen quite a bit in my lifetime. So is obesity really that much worse compared to smoking and apocalyptic air pollution? An interesting question…

Then you should really think if your impression of the apocalyptic situation is actual thing or just propaganda. Smoking though is a probability thing just as the obesity is.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#134

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Iv wrote: post #131
8note wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in both cases, it could be said as "out to make money" not "out to get you" it just so happens that it's always very profitable to sell opium.

I remember a businessman from Hong-Kong, 15 years ago, telling me that as soon as USA realizes China is better at business than they are, they will switch overnight to hating capitalism and free trade. At the time I thought it was a bit exaggerated.

> as soon as USA realizes China is better at business than they are

This is jingoistic at best. Let's ignore that "goodness at business" is an ambiguous and multidimensional metric. Or that defining a "better" direction is similarly dubious. The argument is simply "anything you can do I can do better." To that, the counterfactual is Ricardian comparative advantage.

More broadly, every culture says such things in times of growth and decline. It is never true. But a changing baseline combined with localisation bias reproduces it often. It is a case where the utterance of a thing is more meaningful than the thing itself.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#135

Post by CryptoPunk »

phyzome wrote: post #113
drcode wrote: post #3

I assume the WHO relies on local census & medical data to generate these statistics (the Reuters piece doesn't have a citation on ths) so I'd take this data with a grain of salt until we hear more details about the methodology.

Given the terrible state of US healthcare and social support infrastructure, I don't find this hard to believe at all.

And China spends very little on healthcare, especially through its public sector: http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/Briefing-Note-CHINA-2...

So other factors are probably responsible.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#136

Post by beedogs »

esturk wrote: post #133

So what I'm getting from this statistic is that in China, if you get old and sick, that's probably the end. In US, if you get old and sick, you might have a few more years. Albeit with lower QoL. I'm actually ok with that.

And in any other Western country, you'll both live longer and have a higher quality of life.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#137

Post by dv_dt »

refulgentis wrote: post #60
ardent_uno wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost certainly not due to healthcare coverage, but rather obesity and the recent spike in overdose deaths.

Unfortunately, no. U.S. life expectancy has stalled O(10 years) while others steadily improve. 2013: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-us-life-expectancy-lowes... 2018: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Life expectancy has also improved in this time frame in nations such as Germany where there also have been a slow drift upwards in obesity.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#138

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jewelry wrote: post #132
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know. They said it would be fixed in 2015 back in 2010. The fix is always 5 years away given whatever the current 5 year plan is. Also, China has a ridiculously high smoking rate, with no end in sight for it really. On the other hand, smoking rates in the USA have fallen quite a bit in my lifetime. So is obesity really that much worse compared to smoking and apocalyptic air pollution? An interesting question…

Then you should really think if your impression of the apocalyptic situation is actual thing or just propaganda. Smoking though is a probability thing just as the obesity is.

I lived in Beijing for 10 years (until 2016). Even the most committed wumao wouldn’t it’s pretty bad. Western media (if you mean by propaganda) if anything makes the problem sound not as bad as it really is, but how could any westerner even begin to comprehend an AQI reading over 300 let alone 500 or 1000. Actually, the only people who say the air isn’t bad are the ones who have never been before.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#139

Post by jewelry »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #37
adventured wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Although, it also wouldn't be terribly surprising for China to pass the US on this metric. When you look at the obesity numbers: US 36%, New Zealand 31%, Canada 29%, Australia 29%, UK 28%, Israel 26%, Ireland 25% Thailand 10%, Indonesia 7%, China 6%, Philippines 6%, South Korea, 5%, Vietnam 2% Vietnam's life expectancy will overtake the US in the next 10-15 years as well most likely (they're about three year…

"When you look at the obesity numbers" ... Unfortunately, theses 'lifespan' measurements have a lot to do with violent crime, car accidents, suicides, war deaths etc. - i.e. things that aren't so much about health than otherwise. It's why average lifespan isn't necessarily a very good measure of health outcomes. I think US is down due to overdoses, which is a kind of health issues, but not necessarily a regular measu…

legalization of weed is the worst decision IMO that not only affects the healthy life span but also intoxicate the next gen.

Re: China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data

#140

Post by BurningFrog »

kawaiikouhai wrote: post #47
theparanoid wrote: post #32

The US lifespan is decreasing due to opioid overdoses. Similar to Russia in the 90's with alcohol.

A quick google search would show this is untrue. Opioid overdoses kill 40,000 a year. 2.7 million Americans die per year. Even if you were talking about a decrease in healthy lifespan, Opioids do not generally cause a person to transition from healthy to unhealthy (they are prescribed to treat a preexisting condition). Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

40 of 2700 is 1.5% of deaths. If those are people decades younger than normal deaths, it will bring the numbers down. Not by several years, but by a decimal or two.

> Opioids do not generally cause a person to transition from healthy to unhealthy (they are prescribed to treat a preexisting condition).

This is a very naive view.

People start taking opioids in many different paths, legal and illegal. Some lie to get the prescription, no one can prove you don't have back pain. Some get a prescription after surgery and get addicted that week.

The super informative and well written book to read is Dreamland: https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidem...

Post reply on HN