Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 251 posts

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#131

Post by anyfoo »

briandear wrote: post #5

Elon Musk is the Preston Tucker of our time — seems to get hammered from all sides while trying to break the status quo. I have no information to comment on the validity of any allegations, but it seems like Musk is continually under attack. I was a moderate Musk fan before, but now I am really hoping for his success. It seems to me that if you are pissing off everyone, you’re doing something right. I highly recommen…

You cannot just throw platitudes around like they mean anything. This is not about "pissing everyone off", those are allegations against real damage being done to undeserving people.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#132

Post by pboutros »

netsec_burn wrote: post #102
IBM wrote: post #84

It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well. A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see. edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

Because we all want Tesla to succeed. It's competition in an industry that needs what Tesla is trying to bring to market. It will also greatly benefit the American economy to be the first to mass produce inexpensive electric cars. So personally, I read comments like yours and wonder who you are and why you feel it is necessary to be critical of that motive.

It's important to look at everything with a critical lens, especially the stuff you support. Tesla is deeply flawed, and in order for it to succeed, it needs to overcome those flaws.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#133

Post by cagenut »

Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

the cars are a product demo. selling batteries by the gigawatt is the real biz. GE not GM.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#134

Post by dmix »

Animats wrote: post #119

"... ideologically motivated attack by an extremist organization working directly with union supporters to create a calculated disinformation campaign against Tesla. The piece even includes an interview with Worksafe – the same organization that the UAW enlisted to publish a negative report against Tesla last year, and whose board includes labor union officials and advocates. "[1] - from Tesla's own site. Wow. That s…

The blog post didn't call UAW extermist, that remark was clearly directed at Reveal the organization behind the article/campaign. Quite a big difference. UAW was only referenced in regard to the fact Reveal cited Worksafe in the article, an organization which previously pushed an anti-Tesla PR campaign funded by UAW.

Additionally, the Reveal journalist said on Reddit that many of the people interviewed were indeed "union supporters" (the words Musk specifically used), but also said that not all of them were, such as Tesla's former safety manager.

The "extremist" part may be debatable or an exaggeration, but the other parts had carefully chosen words and were not inaccurate.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#135

Post by almost_usual »

cagenut wrote: post #133
Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

the cars are a product demo. selling batteries by the gigawatt is the real biz. GE not GM.

People are already paying this price without it even being a certainty, that's speculation.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#136

Post by ckastner »

cagenut wrote: post #133
Animats wrote: post #129

The real problem for Tesla is that their destiny is probably to be the next BMW - a good midrange luxury car maker, about #12 in the world on volume. That would be fine except for the excessive market cap. Tesla's market cap exceeded GM's at one point. The stock has to come down a lot if Tesla ends up at BMW's scale. Even with Tesla's most optimistic production estimates, Tesla will make far fewer cars than BMW in th…

the cars are a product demo. selling batteries by the gigawatt is the real biz. GE not GM.

Then you should back Panasonic, not Tesla, because they're the ones with the tech.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#137

Post by on_and_off »

taf2 wrote: post #83
on_and_off wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have got to say, in the past year I have gotten from "oh I should get a Tesla some day if I need a car" to "nope, never buying anything from these guys". I appreciate what Tesla did to popularize electric cars, but everything else isn't that great.

your loss, they're the best cars on the road. it's iphone 2007 vs flip phone...

I am fine, thanks.

I really enjoy not needing a car and don't enjoy driving, even a nice one.

The various reports of low quality of Tesla's cars (like their doors :/ ) have also contributed to suppress any tesla envy.

If I really needed a car right now, I would start by comparing the different ones on the market, Tesla is not the only player in town anymore.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#138

Post by whyaduck »

mschuster91 wrote: post #108
rgbrenner wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that isn't what I'm talking about.. for example, Tesla produces seats in house.. they're low margin and labor intensive. And Tesla runs an assembly line in their factory that makes them cost even more. Other auto companies outsource this part. There's no special IP here.. Not everything that Tesla touches is special. A seat is a seat.

> they're low margin and labor intensive ... and thus very vulnerable to strikes or arbitrary price hikes. Yes, a seat is a seat, but once you're locked in into a vendor, you are locked in. Tesla wants to avoid lock-ins as far as possible and especially something where a switch to a different manufacturer is as difficult as a seat. You can switch a vendor for a simple plastic part in a matter of days if the need aris…

"and thus very vulnerable to strikes or arbitrary price hikes"

If they have professional supply chain and commercial departments they'll have contingencies in place for situations like this.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#139

Post by gniv »

danso wrote: post #2

Related: the two Reveal reporters who worked on the investigation are currently doing an IAMA: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8d7khd/were_two_inves...

From that thread:

> Have you investigated any other auto manufacturer?

> (ajpreports) I haven't nor has Will. But maybe that's our next venture!

That diminishes their credibility a lot in my mind. This is a type of investigation that should be done by people with experience in the area. Especially on a company that pushes the envelope like Tesla.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#140

Post by olefoo »

freeone3000 wrote: post #78
StudentStuff wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its horrifying how Musk treats his workers, its very reminiscent of what Amazon does to most of its employees here in Seattle. Unpaid overtime for warehouse workers? Definitely, as long as the worker doesn't squawk to L&I! Work your developers 10 hours a day, then guilt trip them to coming in on Sunday? Amazon does this constantly. Tesla, SpaceX and Blue Origin seem to have the same work culture as Amazon, even Micro…

"even" Microsoft? Microsoft, home of the individual office, 8-hour workday, #7 in Fortune's Best Places to Work? There's a lot to dislike about bigcorps, but the working environment isn't one of them.

That's for blue-badge people. Temps + Contractors... not so much.
Post reply on HN