I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores • Hacker News Board

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#131

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

333c wrote: post #80

jacquesm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about the $99, I absolutely loathe native apps (because I don't have nor want a smartphone) and there is no way I'll ever buy a Mac to do iOS development. I do have some Apple hardware here but it runs Linux. Developers should be free to make their choices without being forced into some kind of eco-system, especially not with Apple itself focusing more on their gadgets and fashion items revenue streams t…

Does your distaste for native apps extend to the desktop computer? Many HN users (myself included) dislike Electron-type apps because they feel slow and bloated. On my computer, native apps are much nicer, and feel like they fit in much better with the desktop environment. If you agree that native apps on the desktop are a good thing, than I think you would agree that, for smartphone users, native mobile apps are a g…

If you agree that native apps on the desktop are a good thing, than I think you would agree that, for smartphone users, native mobile apps are a good thing as well, for the same reason.

That doesn't necessarily follow. The average mobile app is so simple in terms of both the data it's working with and the complexity of its UI that reasonably efficient code is unlikely to challenge a modern mobile device, whether it's native or running within a browser.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#132

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #111

al2o3cr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they will win in the long run, and will eventually (~5 years) become the dominant type of app in mobile and desktop app stores. Am I the only one who remembers people saying this EXACT thing about Java Swing apps? Not saying it's impossible, but "Write Once Run Anywhere" has been a mirage "just over the horizon" for a long time.

Author here. Maybe Java fans, or Sun/Oracle employees and fanboys said that. That doesn't really mean much. I did predict years ago that open web technologies will destroy native (desktop) apps, Flash, and Silverlight. In hindsight, I was correct. I am predicting the same thing with regards to native mobile apps: they will largely disappear, and web apps will again win.

Well actually no. Mobile destroyed Flash and Silverlight and all of the complex apps that were moved to mobile went native - like Netflix.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#133

Post by tinus_hn » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:52 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #17

gldev3 wrote: post #13

I feel you, every time i have to work with anything apple it's painful. Even their dev tools, i wasn't expecting much from XCode and i was still let down. In this regard Microsoft is way superior.

The dev experience was better with MS's tools, of course. They created PWABuilder, and it *actually generates a Windows Store package (.appx) that can be submitted to the store. No other steps required. Pretty amazing. Google wasn't bad; PWABuilder generated an Android Studio project. You open in Android Studio, build, and it generates the package to be submitted to the store. iOS was sadly the most painful. Not leas…

XCode is well suited if you want to build an iOS app. If you’re trying to build a glorified web app wrapper and to boot you start out disliking everything that has an Apple logo you’re not going to have a good time.

That’s not a problem though, I’m fine with less web app wrappers and less ported Android apps in the App Store.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#134

Post by briandear » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #35

rhacker wrote: post #18

We're definitely at the point in history where we have to get out of these app stores . I get it if you're doing a game or something that's fine, stay in the app store. But I don't know how many times I've been extremely frustrated with a website telling me to get their app. * They break my in-browser password store * They introduce extremely complicated "app-only" device links for Oauth * Updating your UI for most a…

Yep, I hear you. Unfortunately, the status quo today is, that's where the users are. I love the free and opened web. I want it to win. I think it will win and eat native apps (PWAs are already making that happen.) But the barriers to this right now are 1) app stores are where users are and 2) some mobile platforms (read: Apple) have a perverse incentive to cripple web apps so that submitting native apps to their stor…

Does the free and open web have support for augmented reality? On device security? On device machine learning? Accurate GPS? Accelerometers? What about low level graphics?

The “web” is great for websites and CRUD— not so good if you’re trying to go beyond that.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#135

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #115

Silhouette wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barrier to entry. If your project is more than a hobby, you can jump through a couple hoops to reach the iOS userbase. Sure, I can do that. But I won't. If you buy an iPhone, I'm afraid you will just get an inferior version of my service, or you won't find it at all, because you bought into a platform that is developer-hostile. In the meantime, all of my other customers, who are happy to visit my web sites directly o…

You AREN’T making things better for your users — you aren’t making things better for you.

Your comment doesn't make sense, but even if it did, you don't have enough information about what we do to make any intelligent judgement and you're just being unnecessarily aggressive and hostile. Please stop doing that.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#136

Post by tspike » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #78

shinratdr wrote: post #39

From a user perspective, this is why I love iOS. * Barrier to entry. If your project is more than a hobby, you can jump through a couple hoops to reach the iOS userbase. If the difference between $99 and $25 is make-or-break, you're probably trying to publish a hobby/low quality app anyways. There is a reason the Microsoft Store and Google Play are absolutely filled with trash, and this is part of it. * Forcing you t…

Barrier to entry. If your project is more than a hobby, you can jump through a couple hoops to reach the iOS userbase. Sure, I can do that. But I won't. If you buy an iPhone, I'm afraid you will just get an inferior version of my service, or you won't find it at all, because you bought into a platform that is developer-hostile. In the meantime, all of my other customers, who are happy to visit my web sites directly o…

Fair enough, you'll miss out on a lucrative user base.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#137

Post by wpietri » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #120

scarface74 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe you live in a situation where $74 USD is a meaningful barrier to accessing a market. So they could afford a Mac and internet access, but they couldn't afford the extra $74? As far as excluding people and organizations that want to use a single codebase - good. If they didn't want to take the time to customize their apps enough to make it work on my platform of choice, it's not an app I wanted anyway. My take…

> So they could afford a Mac and internet access, but they couldn't afford the extra $74? An old mac should be pretty cheap (the latest xcode runs on pre-2010 macs, even more so as they can be upgraded by hand — to a point) and if you're in SEA or eastern europe your internet connection is not $150/mo comcast. For instance in Romania high-speed internet is $15, but the average net income is $650~700 and minimum wage…

And I'd add that requiring a Mac is another unnecessary barrier to access. Things like Fog Creek's Glitch IDE are making it clear that it's possible to build things from any device with a browser.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#138

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #130

Silhouette wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile Safari's support for modern web standards has made IE look good for some time now. It seems very clear that Apple doesn't want a good experience for web users on its devices. It's very frustrating, because we keep getting requests from users for features we're happy to look into or even already working on... but then discover the user has an iPhone, where the necessary web technologies are supported poorly if…

It isn't Apple that needs to do better for its users the developers need to invest the time and resources so that the users have the best experience. If you aren't willing to offer it, I'm sure someone will.

If you aren't willing to offer it, I'm sure someone will.

Given that some of the services my businesses offer are in various niche markets, and as far as we know they are totally unique and have no direct competition after several years on the market, apparently you are mistaken.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#139

Post by wpietri » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

al2o3cr wrote: post #101

judah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that apps (web or native) shouldn't have free access to e.g. your contacts without permission. But Apple goes beyond security and actually makes it impossible to build first-class experiences for iOS without paying $99/year + 33% in-app purchases. I think that's unfortunate. The free and opened web presents a challenge to Apple's app business. They have a perverse incentive to keep web apps second-class citize…

Lemme get this straight: you're mad that a company you don't want to pay $99/yr to won't build APIs so you can make money on their platform. So sad, lemme find my tiny violin.

It's not their platform. The devices belong to the people who bought them.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#140

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Apr 16, 2018, 6:02 PM UTC

tspike wrote: post #136

Silhouette wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barrier to entry. If your project is more than a hobby, you can jump through a couple hoops to reach the iOS userbase. Sure, I can do that. But I won't. If you buy an iPhone, I'm afraid you will just get an inferior version of my service, or you won't find it at all, because you bought into a platform that is developer-hostile. In the meantime, all of my other customers, who are happy to visit my web sites directly o…

Fair enough, you'll miss out on a lucrative user base.

So people keep saying around these discussions, but I've yet to see any hard data to support it, either published by others or from our own market research.