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Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

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Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#131

Post by sathackr »

zenonu wrote: post #60
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

When I was 15, I discovered Usenet and the various binaries subgroups. This was beyond what my folks understood was on the PC. Your son will access content beyond your current understanding as well. Additionally, you might have a monitor on the PCs you own, but you don't have a monitor on his friends PCs either. The monitoring game is already lost. You indicate a loss of trust, but it goes both ways. There's absolute…

I disagree, as we are not doing anything sneaky. He is well aware of it and it actually was his suggestion.

I often ask him for advice on how he things I should handle a situation, and after reasoning things out, he usually comes to the same or a similar conclusion as me.

He has impulse control issues, and while he needs to learn to control them, he also needs to be protected from any significant harm as a result. I'm okay if he gets burned because he touched the stove after I said it was hot. Some things he needs to learn the hard way.

I'm not okay with him getting 3rd degree burns because he was playing with a lighter and accidentally set his clothes on fire.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#132

Post by sathackr »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #69
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

When I was growing up, I delighted in breaking all of the layers of security my parents loaded up the computers in the house with. I never relented when they tried to block something and they only escalated things, including physically locking away electronics (which also didn't work, I learned how to pick locks and gained access to electronics in other ways), then even further escalations ensued. The main effect of…

My intent is protection, not control.

Each situation is different. Even though things turned out the way they did for you, can you say they would have been different if they had just allowed you to blatantly disregard their rules? Can you say with certainty that none of the stuff they blocked that you accessed regardless did not harm you? Could they have had the foresight to know for sure if you would or would not have been harmed?

I won't get into a discussion on whether things such as nudity or pornography are truly harmful, that's a can of worms. But they are not accepted in the society we live in, and my son has to be able to function in that society, with its rules, controls, and monitors. We have collectively decided on these and I would be failing as a parent if I didn't try to give my child the tools to function in this environment.

Would you care to elaborate on these things that your parents didn't like that were blocked? Did they explain to you and try to get you to understand why they didn't like them? And why you didn't respect them enough to abide by their rules(not saying that you should have respected them, they may have not deserved it)? It sounds like there may have been some deeper issues there.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#134

Post by nickthegreek »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #95
nickthegreek wrote: post #6

When I was a young boy in the 90s, my libertarian aligned father let me use the computer and access the internet. He explained to me that I shouldn't visit certain type of sites, I should never give out my name or address and that he had software installed to monitor what happened on the computer. He explained that this wasn't a breach of trust between us as I was using his equipment and that I had to abide by his ru…

that he had software installed to monitor what happened on the computer. He explained that this wasn't a breach of trust between us as I was using his equipment and that I had to abide by his rules. You do wonder: if the kid was 12 or 14 and bought himself a cheap smartphone from his own money to get away from the parental monitoring apps, would the "libertarian aligned father" be OK with that?

My older brother had 2 kids and he changed the WiFi password weekly and his kids only got the new passwordifnthey did their chores/homework the previous week.

I think that if you have a kid who puts that much value on a device, saves up and buys said device, than that kid is already on the road to responsible behavior.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#135

Post by sathackr »

sorenjan wrote: post #66
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

And making things forbidden won't encourage a 12 year old to find a way to get to it anyway? The hormonal boy will just say "porn is blocked here, I won't look at titties until my parents says it's ok"?

So you're saying I should just let my 12 year old do as he pleases?

Just remove all of the rules? No rules, no consequences.

Sounds like a great idea.

Unfortunately real life doesn't work that way. I agree, the best way to make sure a 12 year old boy does something, is to tell him not to do it. Hell, that's about the best way to get me to do something.

But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a rule with consequences. That's how our society works and he has to learn how to function in it.

I always give him explanations for each rule we have. He's free to ask any questions and I will do my best to get him to understand. He's free to disagree but he is not free to break rules we have set. Many of the rules he has were his idea as a result of a conversation with him asking him what he thinks we should do about a situation.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#136

Post by sathackr »

wycy wrote: post #89
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

Is blocking it more because you don't want to think about him looking at it, or because you actually think he will be damaged by looking at it? I'm sure I found porn at age 12 (now 30). Did you not?

I have no problems thinking about him viewing it. Maybe because he is my stepson? I do not seem to have the typical aversion that causes most parents to prefer to just put on blindfolds and pretend their child isn't growing up.

I don't feel its appropriate. I certainly found porn when I was about that age(actually a bit younger) and feel like it had a negative impact on me in general.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#137

Post by sathackr »

kristofferR wrote: post #67
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

"Inappropriate videos on youtube", like what?

I'm not going to give every example but a couple were some excerpts from Saw, some animated FNoF skits that I felt taught the wrong values. Some with some inappropriate sexual content. (As in sibling comment, I won't delve into the morality of sex. We could be here all day discussing that)

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#138

Post by sathackr »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #82
sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

> Trust. But verify. Give it as a gift. But sell it. AKA, you are contradicting yourself. > We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. Yeah, that's a great move. You are uncomfortable with something, so you limit his freedom to perceive it. That's going to lead to a great relationship where he will trust you with real problems in the future. > Neither of us like…

FWIW I did not downvote you.

I welcome criticism as it often helps adjust perceptions and behaviors.

It has nothing to do with what I'm comfortable with him seeing. As a parent I try to instill my perception of good values in my child, while allowing him to develop his own take on them. Everyone's values are different and what I value, you may not. But there has to be a framework of rules and consequences and he has to learn to operate in that framework, preferably before he is an adult and consequences are things like fines and jail.

You've made an assumption that the issue here is my problem with being uncomfortable with something, which I feel is not an accurate assumption. The rest of your argument is based on that assumption.

I'd be happy to discuss the accuracy of this assumption, perhaps I can learn something.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#139

Post by rainbowmverse »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #121
rainbowmverse wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is suggesting your kid might get into programming by modding a game a romanticized notion? That's one of the most common "how I got into programming" stories. It's completely non-controversial.

But that's not what you suggested. You suggested a "proactive" approach by which I take you mean letting the kid hack on this stuff at least partly on his own. That _is_ a romanticized notion in our particular case. On his own, he quickly runs into obstacles, gets bored, and then fires up YouTube after about 5 minutes, in order to veg out. I do teach him programming, though. He also does some more with his math tutor…

I think we just had a misunderstanding. Had my parents listened to all the advice given to them about me, I'd have ended up in conversion therapy, so I do understand. When it comes to advice, some people (maybe most) just want to bloviate, not elucidate.

It sounds like you are being proactive (acting in anticipation of future problems, needs, or changes).

The reason I suggested Minecraft modding and video-making in particular is:

1: It turns his current passive engagement with it into an active, creator role. Most Minecraft mods and media seem to be made by kids, or at least people who started when they were kids. I've read more than a few accounts from people who ended up in CS careers because of Minecraft.

2: Java and A/V are great skills to learn for a variety of possible career paths. Java also translates easily enough to C# and .NET, which also has plenty of career paths.

I don't have kids, but I know enough parents to know how insecure they get when they realize how woefully unprepared their parents and society left them for it, and how often people give lots of useless unsolicited advice. I tried not to do that, but I can see how it might come off that way if you're constantly fending off useless, unwelcome advice and criticisms.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#140

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

sathackr wrote: post #132
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was growing up, I delighted in breaking all of the layers of security my parents loaded up the computers in the house with. I never relented when they tried to block something and they only escalated things, including physically locking away electronics (which also didn't work, I learned how to pick locks and gained access to electronics in other ways), then even further escalations ensued. The main effect of…

My intent is protection, not control. Each situation is different. Even though things turned out the way they did for you, can you say they would have been different if they had just allowed you to blatantly disregard their rules? Can you say with certainty that none of the stuff they blocked that you accessed regardless did not harm you? Could they have had the foresight to know for sure if you would or would not ha…

>Could they have had the foresight to know for sure if you would or would not have been harmed?

There are endless things in this world that can harm your child. It's natural to be scared of these things, but folly to try and address them all. Each one you address adds another layer of restrictions to your child's psyche, but barely moves the dail on how dangerous this world is. The tradeoff is steep.

>I didn't try to give my child the tools to function in this environment

You didn't give your kid the tools to function around pornography, you did the opposite. You futily attempted to remove pornography from the equation entirely without giving your kid any tools with which to face it. He will seek it out and he will find it, you've only made that fact certain. Only now, you have become the adversary, and when your son does seek these things out he won't ask you for help in understanding them for fear of retribution for breaking your rules.

Remember this axiom: you cannot stop your kid from viewing this content. He is smarter than you. If you cannot block this content but try to anyway, all you're left with is the negative effects.

>can you say they would have been different if they had just allowed you to blatantly disregard their rules?

You don't respect your child's autonomy by setting these rules. You can make endless excuses for your rules being just, but step into your son's shoes. "Dad says 'my house, my rules' but it's not like I can move out." What is your kid's recourse in this situation? Again, if you think your filters are effective you're delusional. All you do is disrespect your child by doing this.

>Would you care to elaborate on these things that your parents didn't like that were blocked? Did they explain to you and try to get you to understand why they didn't like them? And why you didn't respect them enough to abide by their rules(not saying that you should have respected them, they may have not deserved it)? It sounds like there may have been some deeper issues there.

I would be happy to discuss this privately, my email is in my profile.

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