This paradox has been highlighted at another level : a study which I read in the book "Psychologie sociale : perspective multiculturelle" by Serge Guimond showed that countries with the highest gender/sex equality in terms of RIGHTS also had the highest gender gap in terms of STEREOTYPES.
The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
131–140 of 198 posts
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the myth of a theoretical "free" market holds any water and can be applied sensibly to any real world scenario. In the actual free market a giant megacorp would swoop all promising hires and suppress all competition by selling at a loss until nobody else dares to enter the field.
In actual free market selling at loss is a very short-sighted strategy: you may cause the bankruptcy of your current competitors, but bariers to entry are low, so once you raise your prices back to profitable levels the new competition arises. You would have to sell at loss most of the time which would eventually bankrupt your megacorp. That’s why monopolies can only exist in regulated markets.
Ever heard of natural monopolies? Railways?
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This, and similar research I'd seen before seems to point to women being equal or better at STEM than men (and also being better at non-STEM stuff) What I find onerous is that it's perfectly acceptable to make blanket statements about women being better at things than men, while it's now literally a sackable offense at many major tech companies to even imply the opposite. This doesn't seem like "progress towards eq…
I said that women usually have a lower understanding of mechanics than men do in conversation and the other person looked at me shocked like I had just killed a puppy. I then said that very often dad's will teach their sons how to mechanically work on things as a basis for this conclusion and they where understanding of that, but not my original point. I find it frustrating that I can't make a statement without first…
You find it frustrating that you have to back up your statements?
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#134This phenomenon isn't entirely new. Some man have seen it as "Scandinavian gender paradox". Still, why are we surprised? We know instinctively, that there will never web 50/50 in some fields, because man/women just don't like it as much. It's sad that some people have to pretend to agree with the feminist narrative
Except some studies have shown countries with more equal rights country have worse gender stereotypes overall. And even if the studied were to be flawed, your "men and women have different tasted" theory is pure narrative as well. No study with any solid methodology has ever shown women and men have inherently different tastes when it comes to STEMs, and it's pretty much impossible considering the intertwined nature of nature and nurture and the very cultural nature of STEMs.
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#135Forcing people to change their interests based on an agenda only results in them being even less interested than they were in the first place. There is also the backlash to the nonstop pushing of politically-based hiring instead of meritocratic practices. Some even state "meritocracy" is outright oppressive and should never be applied.
Maybe because these people realized meritocracy is an outright lie and that in any instance there are gender/racial/class/geographical/... inequality, or even biological inequality you right-wingers are so keen to point at, so there's no way to actually talk about merit ?
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't treating women differently from men sexist by definition? If we want equality, let's treat everyone equally. No special programs for any gender. We're constantly told that men and women are the same, and that you can even switch between them any time you want, but then we hear the complaints that gender X does better/worse at task Z. This narrative doesn't make any sense to me.
Men and women obviously aren't the same, no matter how much gnashing of teeth of matter occurs, because both have their strengths in different areas, according to their overall psychology. Men and women are psychologically-different, and no amount of trying to force a desperate sameness will change that. In fact, it might even cause people to want to be even more different than before. The SJWs campaign for "sameness…
"men and women are different" is such a broad statement you sure could say it and then say "duh anyone who disagrees is bullshit". Here's big news : blue eyed and brown eyed people are different. As for the rest of your text, it's all just broad statements with very little scientific value, since theybare then again broad claims. Girls prefer pink, y'know. So natural.
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#137Drawing conclusions about "innate" differences between men and women from this data doesn't seem valid. There's a lot of research left to eliminate confounding effects on participation that aren't covered or investigated by the "Global Gender Gap Index" (e.g. cultural attitudes towards women in STEM, or on-the-job discrimination). Scatter-plotting two datasets available on the internet doesn't feel like enough resear…
I like your scare quotes around "innate" biology :-) What an outdated concept, innateness, right?
Please don't confuse your personal ignorance with a lack of publicly available research.
The (population, statistical) biological differences between men and women are well established, documented and non-controversial at this point, except in looney circles. (Hint: biological differences in child-bearing and physical abilities get reflected in different social aptitude and risk-management strategies, which are in turn reflected in occupational choices)
Unless you deny there are gender differences in physical strength and child-bearing, of course. In which case there isn't much left to say.
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#138One reason could be - in poor/developing countries STEM is understood as the escape path from the poverty, while in developed countries people seem assured in their future even if they go in humanities or any other non-tech field - thus following their interests/hobbies rather than the need. EDIT: unintentional tl;dr as it seems :)
I guess you are a man as your ability to read the article is not great!
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#139Let's turn the argument on it's head. Statistics say boys are more heavily inclined to have a STEM career. Does this mean they feel they cannot consider a career in other fields like teaching, nursing or other female-dominated fields? As a woman I often wonder, what's so great about STEM aside from the paycheck? It depends on your bosses (or being your own if you are lucky and that way inclined), but I don't think we…
Yes thank you, people seem to forget that the reason why STEM gets a higher paycheck is because there's less people willing to go for it, both female and male, the paycheck is not a prize you get for being male, it's a prize you get for the sacrifice you make. Look at it this way: no one is complaining about the lack of girls in the blue collar industry.
> less people willing to go for it
Or capable. I imagine the IQ bar is set quite a bit higher for STEM-like courses and careers... Also, there's much less room for bullshit (at least in programming - your code either works, or it doesn't work, and that's really easy to verify at university and when applying to jobs - as opposed to e.g. marketing, where it's much harder to quantify someone's skill).
Re: The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most studies on this seem to show that gender based preferences can be at least partially explained from birth before any environmental factors play a part in it. People have been doing these studies for a long time now, but they get ignored because we don't like the results. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3030621/ And of course, far more studies that have been going on for decades.
Biological preferences don't explain why careers preferred by women have less average pay than careers preferred by men.
They don't? AFAIK explanation of one of the factors is not even that complicated:
lower physical strength (on average) => more focus on social skills (on average) => higher agreeableness (one of the Big-5 traits) and preference for avoiding conflict (on average) => less risk but also less upside (on average) => less extreme career choices but also less extreme rewards (on average)