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Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

theroot.com

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Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#131

Post by rburhum »

epmaybe wrote: post #105
rburhum wrote: post #68

Although this is a topic that is easy to get angry about, I can't honestly trust anything that I read from theroot.com since I have seen many articles that are just racially charged and completely biased. Just a few days ago, they posted something about the ousting of London Breed here in SF ( https://www.theroot.com/london-breed-had-a-clean-shot-at-bec... ). The problem with that article, is that it blames the ousti…

someone above posted a link to the baltimore sun that just presents the evidence. Let me know what you think of it: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-gun...

Yeah this really sucks and really messed up. This source is far more legit.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#132

Post by sheraz »

NiklasMort wrote: post #76
sheraz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you only ever consume terrible news then it would seem that way. I can cast sweden in a similar light. Or even Disneys magic kingdom.

I am very aware of that but overall it still looks like it if you have a look at all topics, personal stories and experiences etc. I'd be rather fearful to go the the US, starts at the border, then their cities and then I'd be fearful of their police. Not to mention all the other issues this country seems to have. The poverty in the USA is worse than in some ex 2nd world countries, so bad that even the UN called upon…

How many hundreds of thousands pass through American borders with little hassle every day? That is not news (but maybe it should be as well).

Also, one cannot paint with such a wide brush as "The USA." It is the same mistake as any American visiting London, Paris, and Berlin -- and then saying they have seen "Europe." They didn't see Europe -- they saw globalized mega-regions that happened to be located on the European continent.

Unfortunately, Baltimore is an outlier when it comes to violent crime, corruption, and poverty. It is an urban center in decline and in need of all kinds of help. (This is where I stop, else it becomes political very quickly).

Compare Baltimore to places like Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix, and you will see very different cities. The US is huge in geography, population, and economics. Pinpointing an outlier and concluding that the entire country is poor and dangerous does not make for constructive conversation.

We would do ourselves a favor to talk more about the specific problems Baltimore faces, and then look at the broader American context to see which sister similar cities have tackled similar problems.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#133

Post by icc97 »

DanBC wrote: post #67
ralusek wrote: post #40

Body cams on police and actual consequences for misconduct. Some of the videos of people (of all colors) being unlawfully murdered have led to absolutely zero consequence for those responsible. Those with authority granted by the public should have HIGHER accountability and more severe consequences, not be able to subvert them altogether. It's not difficult to imagine the level of misconduct that is likely occurring…

> which differs sharply from the actual data on race/crime/police lethal force Can you show me the data set that breaks down police killings by race of the killed person please? Or can you even point me to the dataset that just lists all police killings?

I did some investigation based on the Washington Post data for Skeptics Stack Exchange [0]. There's a significant difference between black and white killings.

[0]: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/39887/37853

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#134

Post by talldan »

krapp wrote: post #116
talldan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I didn't replace "cops" with "black people", you did. An ethnicity is a completely different thing to a law enforcement agency. edit: If you want me to explain why, I can. A law enforcement agency is a group of people who have decided to perform a particular duty. An ethnicity is a group of people who are born that particular way. A law enforcement agency has a strict set of rules governing behaviour, which when…

The same rationale used to blame police as a whole for the corruption of a few is also used to justify the attitudes of the police presented in this article, on the basis that any random black individual is more likely to be violent or prone to criminal activity. That the police and black people are not precisely the same sort of entity is irrelevant.

Just because you can't see the difference, it doesn't make it irrelevant.

By the way - the law agrees with me. Please read about police accountability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_accountability

"The 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act authorized the United States Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division to bring civil ("pattern or practice") suits against local law enforcement agencies, to reign in abuses and hold them accountable.[9] As a result, numerous departments have entered into consent decrees or memoranda of understanding, requiring them to make organizational reforms"

Now apply your logic to black people, and you'll find that your views are worrying.

The basic issue is, that when the department/agency as a whole is not held accountable, they're able to avoid reforms that circumvent the issues in the future. Punish just the one police officer, and another later is able perform the same levels of corruption. It's systematic abuse of power.

This is why we must hold 'cops' or 'Baltimore cops' responsible, not just the few perpetrators.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#135

Post by talmand »

bjl wrote: post #95
weberc2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being polite, it's about coming to absurd conclusions that generalize a million people based on a handful of carefully selected malefactors. We can say, "we want to reduce police corruption" without peddling or subscribing to this complete nonsense (which is unfortunately The Root's wheelhouse).

If it was only a handful of malefactors, then the rest of them should be forcing the bad apples out quickly, and calling for justice. The fact that the vast majority of police officers remain silent lends some credence to the generalisation.

The difference is that bad cops are a minor percentage, the fact that the rest protect their own is the generalization you are looking for. The other comment proposes the generalization that all cops will shoot you in the face, which is comically wrong on many levels.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#136

Post by icc97 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #124
mathattack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price for this should be massive. Doing this once or twice corrupts the justice system and destroys public trust in police. This invites gangs to become the law and order. Look how that’s worked out in Chicago.

Yes. I increasingly believe there are kinds of anti-system crimes which should be punished with highest sentences. I'm thinking of crimes that have disproportionate, negative impact on stability and security of society. Like this. Or fucking with vaccinations, like CIA people did. (Incidentally, I also believe that the guy responsible for fake bomb detectors (from the other thread on the frontpage today) should get a…

Perhaps I'm taking what you say too literally, but you couldn't equate it with murder. It would be mass attempted manslaughter. So it would have to be at that level.

That's not to say we shouldn't treat it as seriously just that it's a different intent.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#137

Post by alphabettsy »

piva00 wrote: post #42
ckastner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about a sub-group of these people, but the tone to me as well was one of sweeping generalizations. Edit (instead of replying to all of the individual replies): I'll be the first to acknowledge that there are systemic problems in police forces worldwide, just like there are systemic problems in any large organization, especially one endowed which so much executive power. However, any argument that paint…

I'm originally from Brazil and I hear that same argument about cops over there, that bad ones are a minority, that we shouldn't generalise. I don't buy it, the system itself enables this, if it didn't then those bad apples would have been detected and expelled before they could cause so much damage. It can be a minority doing that but they have affected so much that the whole itself is no longer trustworthy and requi…

Well the saying is bad apples spoil the bunch, and obviously in some cases the whole bunch is spoiled but we refuse to believe it, and instead still think we’re at the few bad apples part.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#138

Post by TeMPOraL »

icc97 wrote: post #136
TeMPOraL wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I increasingly believe there are kinds of anti-system crimes which should be punished with highest sentences. I'm thinking of crimes that have disproportionate, negative impact on stability and security of society. Like this. Or fucking with vaccinations, like CIA people did. (Incidentally, I also believe that the guy responsible for fake bomb detectors (from the other thread on the frontpage today) should get a…

Perhaps I'm taking what you say too literally, but you couldn't equate it with murder. It would be mass attempted manslaughter. So it would have to be at that level. That's not to say we shouldn't treat it as seriously just that it's a different intent.

Yeah, I meant the less literate version. It's obviously not murder, but I believe it should be treated at least as seriously.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#139

Post by talmand »

rando444 wrote: post #114
sho wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of quotes to question the authenticity or true nature of something is accepted in English. You could have said "journalism" and I wouldn't have jumped on you. On "article" though it's inappropriate. The other comment notwithstanding, an article is an article, no matter if it's written by a journalist, an amateur, or a monkey banging its head on a keyboard. There is zero credibility implied by the word. Exampl…

Example: > The "food" from that restaurant was awful Incorrect. No matter what you thought of the food, the fact is that it is food (ie, something that can be digested as a source of nutrition). This usage betrays a lack of sophistication and should be avoided. > The food from that "restaurant" was awful Correct usage. You are (humorously, snarkily) questioning if the establishment you visited qualifies as a restaura…

Based on your explanation I would say both of those are valid, depending upon one's own personal definition of "restaurant" is.

If one thinks of a restaurant as a business that accepts money to serve you food then the comparison is the same. No matter what you thought of the restaurant, the fact is they took your money and served you food.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#140

Post by [deleted] »

yters wrote: post #82
ryanlol wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like it’s a sweeping generalization to call ISIS members terrorists, right? Most of them don’t partake in such ops.

So apparently our police force is equivalent to ISIS. I guess it would be better if gangs ruled the streets. At least they don't do as many bad things as the cops do.

[deleted]
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