Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

theroot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 177 posts

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#31

Post by mikepurvis »

ckastner wrote: post #24
pornel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about people literally trying to get away with murder. The last two sentences are references to well-documented cases of police officers killing non-dangerous citizens. There's no reason to be polite about this.

The article is about a sub-group of these people, but the tone to me as well was one of sweeping generalizations. Edit (instead of replying to all of the individual replies): I'll be the first to acknowledge that there are systemic problems in police forces worldwide, just like there are systemic problems in any large organization, especially one endowed which so much executive power. However, any argument that paint…

Any member of the force, its leadership, or the surrounding politicians who is not 100% supporting the investigation and calling for heads to roll, is complicit. If that's a large enough group, then a sweeping generalization is absolutely warranted.

"Bad apple" arguments only work if there's actual evidence of "good apples" working to expel the bad ones.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#32

Post by Pharylon »

ckastner wrote: post #24
pornel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is about people literally trying to get away with murder. The last two sentences are references to well-documented cases of police officers killing non-dangerous citizens. There's no reason to be polite about this.

The article is about a sub-group of these people, but the tone to me as well was one of sweeping generalizations. Edit (instead of replying to all of the individual replies): I'll be the first to acknowledge that there are systemic problems in police forces worldwide, just like there are systemic problems in any large organization, especially one endowed which so much executive power. However, any argument that paint…

As long as police unions fight reform it's the institution as a whole that's the problem, not a small sub-group.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#34

Post by sho »

cjrp wrote: post #25
sho wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of quotes to question the authenticity or true nature of something is accepted in English. You could have said "journalism" and I wouldn't have jumped on you. On "article" though it's inappropriate. The other comment notwithstanding, an article is an article, no matter if it's written by a journalist, an amateur, or a monkey banging its head on a keyboard. There is zero credibility implied by the word. Exampl…

Isn't something being food (edible, contains sustenance) also a fact?

Yes, but the fact is that there is that alternate state (inedible, not-food) that it can at least be compared to, and humorously categorised as.

An article is an article is an article. What is it if it's not an article? Imaginary? It just doesn't work.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#35

Post by OldGuuuuy »

chatmasta wrote: post #17
anon1385 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to some of the things in this article which are "falsehoods, or misrepresent facts"? Some of the worst and most inaccurate articles I've ever seen have been written by career journalists. (Admittedly I live in the UK where the majority of newspapers are on a par with Infowars for honesty and fact checking. Maybe you live somewhere where professional journalism is more respectable).

See the referenced quote that started this sub thread for example: > It is not just Baltimore cops. It is cops. They will shoot you in the face in front of your infant daughter. They will choke you to sleep for selling cigarettes. They will shoot you in the back for walking away. This is drawing a false equivalence by assuming the actions of a subgroup represent the group as a whole. It’s no different than citing a f…

Black people do not cooperate in a group the way police officers do. Claiming so would be a conspiracy theory. Police a paid from the same bank account, work in the same house, are hired by the same organization, wear the same uniform and have the same training.

So there is a difference between claiming "blacks do this" vs. "cops do this".

Also the paragraph before the quote was conveniently left out

"Or maybe Baltimore is indicative of police departments all over the country. Maybe they’re like the one in Cleveland, which hired the cop who killed Tamir Rice after he was fired by another police department. Or like the South Carolina state trooper who said he shot a man because he was moving erratically while reaching for his wallet. Or when a paid police informant planted cocaine in a store owner’s shop."

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#36

Post by anon1385 »

chatmasta wrote: post #17
anon1385 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to some of the things in this article which are "falsehoods, or misrepresent facts"? Some of the worst and most inaccurate articles I've ever seen have been written by career journalists. (Admittedly I live in the UK where the majority of newspapers are on a par with Infowars for honesty and fact checking. Maybe you live somewhere where professional journalism is more respectable).

See the referenced quote that started this sub thread for example: > It is not just Baltimore cops. It is cops. They will shoot you in the face in front of your infant daughter. They will choke you to sleep for selling cigarettes. They will shoot you in the back for walking away. This is drawing a false equivalence by assuming the actions of a subgroup represent the group as a whole. It’s no different than citing a f…

>No editor would ever allow a line like that to make it to publication.

I'm sorry, but have you ever read an actual newspaper other than the New York Times? That kind of thing makes it into newspapers with editors all the time. Hell, a lot of the time it's the editors writing it! [1]

[1] https://www.buzzfeed.com/aishagani/muslim-and-jewish-groups-... to pick one of the more high profile recent examples from the UKs biggest selling newspaper, in a column written by a former editor

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#37

Post by Retric »

titanix2 wrote: post #29
chatmasta wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For which part? Have you missed the whole “fake news” fiasco? People will upvote and share any article that reinforces their existing beliefs and world view. Rather than approaching articles with a healthy skepticism and critical thinking, many people are consuming content based on what “team” the author seems to be advocating for. Instead of asking questions like, “what is the author’s agenda?” or “does this author…

The whole "fake news" thing is mostly one side losing an election and putting the blame on a strategy they also used for years. It doesn’t matter if the fake news comes from reputed newspapers institution or not, the media game always have been a power game and the internet is just rebalancing a scale that was heavly tipped for years towards one world view.

If you look at bias in the news it's been Republican leaning for the last 20 years. Which is what happens when someone decides to make a major news source devoted to propaganda and the other side does not.

Which is really a response to how unbalanced the US political process has become. When the facts disagree with your point of view, ignore them. -> Reality now seems biased.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#38

Post by rsynnott »

thriftwy wrote: post #33

Should not police departments have something like internal investigations department to catch things like these before public have to be involved?

I always suspect that a big part of the problem with the US police system is that it's made up of loads of regional forces. In countries with national forces, internal investigations are easier; just bring in people from the other side of the country, who have no particular loyalty to the people they're investigating.

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#39

Post by mikepurvis »

nukeop wrote: post #18

This isn't a problem with cops, or blacks, or whites, or anything like that. This is a problem with the USA. In some countries the entire police force of the country combined uses fewer bullets per year than the average police officer in the States. The homicide rates can be 40 times smaller in European countries than there. There's just something fundamentally wrong with that country and it would be a mistake to att…

It's insane seeing videos of routine traffic stops in the US where both officers leap from their vehicle with guns drawn, ready to escalate the situation at the slightest provocation.

Future, more civilized, societies will one day study the ruins of America with bafflement. Like, what were they thinking? Was this what liberty was to them?

Re: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person

#40

Post by ralusek »

Body cams on police and actual consequences for misconduct. Some of the videos of people (of all colors) being unlawfully murdered have led to absolutely zero consequence for those responsible. Those with authority granted by the public should have HIGHER accountability and more severe consequences, not be able to subvert them altogether. It's not difficult to imagine the level of misconduct that is likely occurring in the cases where no video evidence is even available.

And while the racial component of police shootings has been portrayed in a way which differs sharply from the actual data on race/crime/police lethal force, there IS still some element of uncertainty in the exact figures. The fact that there is any uncertainty at all in police killings being reported correctly is absolutely INSANE to me. This is not an area where we can have sloppy data. If a government agent is responsible for the death of a citizen, it is unacceptable that we not have a very clear record of all surrounding circumstance.

Post reply on HN