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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

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131–140 of 882 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#131
post #91

Wow, think for a second how hard is to be an entrepreneur. All the shit we have to deal with at so many different levels. These women goes beyond that, literally putting everything on the line. Much respect.

This has nothing to do with being an entrepreneur. The same behavior happens on all levels.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you're not doing doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear." Ahh--if only this were ever true.

Again, that statement is only false if these are false accusations. Are you saying they're false accusations?

My point holds as long as false accusations are possible. Women, like men, are not all angels. Sexism, or even patriarchy, has no gender.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Why? There's a really simple procedure that can solve these problems: Don't hit on, feel-up, or try to have sex with people you're in a professional business relationship with . That goes double for people you hold power over (managers to employees, VCs to Founders, etc). If you're really truly worried about false accusations then here's another fix you can have…

> "If you're really truly worried about false accusations then here's another fix you can have for free: record your meetings, texts, emails, and calls with founders and/or don't meet alone." Well, there are two problems with that. 1 - It puts the burden of proof on the accused. I.E. it totally throws out of the window what has become a de facto human right and an universally established legal one in every democracy:…

It may or may not be legal to record conversations in the U.S. depending on the state, and depending on whether or not other people consent to being recorded. California has 2-party consent law when it comes to recording conversations. In other words, it's a crime to record a conversation with another person and not tell them: https://www.google.com/search?q=california+conversaion+recor....

(Law enforcement is exempt from this restriction, of course).

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#134

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

Are you...are you really that naive? This is almost all a matter of media attention, which is all a matter of money. You also won't hear about discrimination at the upper reaches in the fashion industry because, guess what, those advertising dollars speak loudly.

Once the West Coast tech world starts paying into the scam you won't hear about sexual transgressions there any more than you do in the world of Wall Street or Hollywood which are, as you hint, 1000x worse. People are just now hearing about guys like Bill Cosby, but his behavior was standard issue.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#135
post #90

I'm a US, straight (the subject of the OP is men hitting on women, so, for me to give my experience as examples, it's important to note that I'm a straight male), US, native born, white (for my examples, it's likely also relevant to note that I'm in the majority of the people in the subject of the OP), male. From my first girlfriend to my (late) wife, I've always treated girls/women as angels. But in the work place,…

How interesting.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#136

"Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap?" Because any of them that aren't used to avoiding all the risky behaviors, whether doing it intentionally (asking for dates) or unintentionally ("discriminatory language"), will now worry that they'll be hit with newspaper articles that can destroy their career. They'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by…

>So, this shit happens whenever the aggressive, scheming women (or men) see a way to get more for themselves at some seemingly-vulnerable man's (or woman's) expense.

These are people with personality disorders (especially Borderline), who can thrive in environments where incessant lying, gaslighting, and life-ruining accusations are rewarded . The current system lets the people with the least morals float to the top, regardless of their gender. I don't know how to deal with borderlines in situations like this, but it's wrong for people to simply pretend they don't exist.

I've noticed people on HN never really want to discuss why people like the Uber CEO are sexist, and how people like that should be handled (aside from just firing them and forgetting that they exist). Learning about personality disorders can help you understand lots of behavior that was previously unexplainable or baffling, and perhaps even teach you something about yourself if you realize that you have one. The more time I spend in tech, the more I think that the rate of occurrence for them is much higher than in the general population.

I really wish greater awareness of personality disorders was espoused in tech, and that Americans in general took mental health more seriously. I think you could begin to fix a lot of problems that get talked about here by simply having people go to therapy. It wouldn't be a quick fix and it's not guaranteed, but it's better than nothing.

Also learning about the drama triangle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#138

Wow, this seems terrible. For these women (and from the sounds of it, many more) to always have to second guess if an investor likes them for good business reasons or whether it's just because they're pretty. To always dread meeting a new business contact, knowing there's a small but substantial chance he'll make some awkward comment. Some thoughts: 1. Is this more common in silicon valley than elsewhere? (I've never…

It's a lot to do with the culture of entrepreneurship-- to do this stuff well requires taking a lot of risks without a lot of oversight. You can become fantastically successful doing it too, which comes with a whole host of other psychological dangers. And there is an obvious power imbalance at play. AND most critically, it's a culture that is very relationship based, where you don't want to burn bridges. It's not at all clear that the women that came forward, even now, are going to come out of it unscathed. Nobody's gonna come out against them now, but if they want to raise another round next year, who's gonna pick up the phone? I hope it isn't an issue, but if it were, there's no telling why your round didn't clear.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#139
post #53

I really hope that stories like this will let us stop blaming specific companies like Uber and accept that this is a problem with our industry. We're never going to be able to fix this as long as we keep sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it's not a systemic issue.

As with all corporate evils, it will require leadership from the top down establishing clear standards of behavior with strong enforcement. Simultaneously, external pressure via media, lawsuits, and missing key talent can be applied on companies not doing it or reinforcing those half-assing it.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#140

Wow, this seems terrible. For these women (and from the sounds of it, many more) to always have to second guess if an investor likes them for good business reasons or whether it's just because they're pretty. To always dread meeting a new business contact, knowing there's a small but substantial chance he'll make some awkward comment. Some thoughts: 1. Is this more common in silicon valley than elsewhere? (I've never…

I just want to elaborate on point #4. I chose those examples purposefully: Those three are all well-known business leaders who have dated or married their subordinates. Presumably, there was a point where Gates/Brin/Knight initiated or suggested to initiate romantic involvement.

If as it turns out the woman had not been interested, in retrospect, would the methods of initiation seem like sexual harassment? I believe it's very likely they might.

Again, there are clearly methods that are right and clearly some that are wrong. But I have a feeling the large grey area can be considered harassment if a woman turns out not to be interested, and adoringly recalled in a heart-warming wedding toast if they end up getting married.

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