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The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

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Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#131

Post by nemo44x »

cjbenedikt wrote: post #128
nemo44x wrote: post #98

If I had a Bitcoin for every skeptic that posts a blog on why it can't work... This may just be my general observation but I feel like Silicon Valley hegemony has a grudge against crypto currencies and I'm not sure why. For an industry that has constantly tried new things and saw potential where no one else did, I just don't see the love for the potential of smart contracts, DApps, etc. And how this is just the begin…

"I do see a lot of enthusiasm from Eastern Europeans and all across Asia and they seem to be leading the charge on what could be the next major technical revolution." You may wish to also include hubs in London,UK and Zug,Switzerland

Good point - I've noticed that too. With a certain lack of easily available funds for startups in the UK (compared to Silicon Valley) I can see why they'd embrace that.

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#132

Post by someSven »

rhino369 wrote: post #67
rlpb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin does not come with its own Bitcoin-police-force and Bitcoin-law-courts My government will enforce a contract even if it is denominated in some foreign currency, will it not? Currency used is independent of jurisdiction. They may award damages in legal tender, rather than in Bitcoin, but I have to pay taxes in legal tender anyway, so there will always be a market to convert back. Right now they might be conf…

Sure. But having to convert to pay taxes and debts is huge pain point for trying to conduct all your business in a foreign currency. It also adds transaction costs. If you are a business, why would you ever try to run on bitcoin alone? There would have to be a huge advantage. And we see that in many small cottage industries where that is an advantage, like buying drugs online or illegal gambling. But without the need…

> But without the need for pseudo-anonymity why would anyone ever use it? Why would your grocery store use bitcoin over dollars?

Because the want the money from people which have bitcoins? Because creditcard fees are to high? (just forget about the BTC fees or the nearly fictional double spending problem) Another reason could be that the owner has Bitcoins and wants to support them. There might be more reasons.

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#133

Post by [deleted] »

moduspol wrote: post #125
root_axis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source of the distaste is obvious: breathless hyperbole without much substance to show for it. Posts like yours are a great example of it. In this very comment you write: > leading the charge on what could be the next major technical revolution Unsubstantiated hype. Where is the revolution? A common thread among cryptocurrency enthusiasts is that the revolution is coming... except it never does. When you talk abo…

Watch this video [1] of Bill Gates explaining the value of the Internet to David Letterman, where he's just not getting it at all. Bill's telling him the things it can do relative to David's interests, but he just sees those as problems that don't really exist because they've already been solved. It took decades before the Internet was useful to "the masses." I don't think there's some conspiracy among VCs, but I do…

[deleted]

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#134

Post by revmoo »

root_axis wrote: post #112
nemo44x wrote: post #98

If I had a Bitcoin for every skeptic that posts a blog on why it can't work... This may just be my general observation but I feel like Silicon Valley hegemony has a grudge against crypto currencies and I'm not sure why. For an industry that has constantly tried new things and saw potential where no one else did, I just don't see the love for the potential of smart contracts, DApps, etc. And how this is just the begin…

The source of the distaste is obvious: breathless hyperbole without much substance to show for it. Posts like yours are a great example of it. In this very comment you write: > leading the charge on what could be the next major technical revolution Unsubstantiated hype. Where is the revolution? A common thread among cryptocurrency enthusiasts is that the revolution is coming... except it never does. When you talk abo…

> A common thread among cryptocurrency enthusiasts is that the revolution is coming... except it never does.

You can have a series of encrypted bits on a personal computer with a single unit being worth more than an ounce of gold. That IS revolutionary.

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#135

Post by [deleted] »

nemo44x wrote: post #129
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had a Bitcoin for every skeptic that posts a blog on why it can't work... And if I had a real dollar for everyone raving about some optimistic Bitcoin utopia... > This may just be my general observation but I feel like Silicon Valley hegemony has a grudge against crypto currencies and I'm not sure why. Because they're a solution of a problem that doesn't exist? Or rather, whose actual solution is political, no…

Cars were a solution to a problem that didn't exist when considered a certain way. Texting seemed fine but yet here we are with many billions of market cap for messaging programs. I agree there's hype on the other side of it too - look at the recent ICO craze. I'm not saying that crypto isn't getting love. But that it isn't getting much love from a very particular place. A place that traditionally has never had a pro…

[deleted]

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#136

Post by root_axis »

moduspol wrote: post #125
root_axis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source of the distaste is obvious: breathless hyperbole without much substance to show for it. Posts like yours are a great example of it. In this very comment you write: > leading the charge on what could be the next major technical revolution Unsubstantiated hype. Where is the revolution? A common thread among cryptocurrency enthusiasts is that the revolution is coming... except it never does. When you talk abo…

Watch this video [1] of Bill Gates explaining the value of the Internet to David Letterman, where he's just not getting it at all. Bill's telling him the things it can do relative to David's interests, but he just sees those as problems that don't really exist because they've already been solved. It took decades before the Internet was useful to "the masses." I don't think there's some conspiracy among VCs, but I do…

I tire of the internet comparison. You're drawing a surface-level comparison between the greatest communication and economic innovation in human history and blockchain software, because people were skeptical of both. And? That doesn't prove anything except that people were skeptical of both; nothing in that comparison speaks to the underlying nature of either things being compared. They are not the same.

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#137

Post by coldtea »

nemo44x wrote: post #129
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had a Bitcoin for every skeptic that posts a blog on why it can't work... And if I had a real dollar for everyone raving about some optimistic Bitcoin utopia... > This may just be my general observation but I feel like Silicon Valley hegemony has a grudge against crypto currencies and I'm not sure why. Because they're a solution of a problem that doesn't exist? Or rather, whose actual solution is political, no…

Cars were a solution to a problem that didn't exist when considered a certain way. Texting seemed fine but yet here we are with many billions of market cap for messaging programs. I agree there's hype on the other side of it too - look at the recent ICO craze. I'm not saying that crypto isn't getting love. But that it isn't getting much love from a very particular place. A place that traditionally has never had a pro…

>Cars were a solution to a problem that didn't exist when considered a certain way.

What way? Because people absolutely would have jumped at the chance to go from a place to another faster (and more comfortably) and had myriads of reasons to want to do so at any time in history.

>I'm not saying that crypto isn't getting love. But that it isn't getting much love from a very particular place. A place that traditionally has never had a problem embracing a million odd ideas. A place with a culture where 90% failure is expected because that 10% success more than makes up for it.

Well, is it getting much love from ANY other place though, except a small niche of enthusiasts?

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#138

Post by nemo44x »

root_axis wrote: post #118
corv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICO's are clearly enjoying a use. Largest crowdfunding in history can't be ignored - whether it ends in tears for most investors is another matter entirely.

I asked for a practical example. Just because a bunch of people decided to spend their money on internet tokens does not mean it is useful. How is it useful ?

Groups of actors across the world can make an agreement that is enforced by a smart contract. When an actor fails to live up their obligation they are refused payment. There is no way to take off with something that is not yours. There is no reliable or efficient way to cheat. You don't have to know the other actors you are making an agreement for something with.

Can you do this now without a smart contract? Of course. The usefulness is in that it's universally visible and lowers the barrier to entry and is far less complex.

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#139

Post by aaron-lebo »

nemo44x wrote: post #138
root_axis wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked for a practical example. Just because a bunch of people decided to spend their money on internet tokens does not mean it is useful. How is it useful ?

Groups of actors across the world can make an agreement that is enforced by a smart contract. When an actor fails to live up their obligation they are refused payment. There is no way to take off with something that is not yours. There is no reliable or efficient way to cheat. You don't have to know the other actors you are making an agreement for something with. Can you do this now without a smart contract? Of cours…

If it's so uncheatable, why did the original DAO get hacked?

Re: The blockchain paradox: Why DLTs may do little to transform the economy

#140

Post by TremendousJudge »

quinndupont wrote: post #83
NoGravitas wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the concept of "money" existed before governments This is not actually true. The concept of money (quantifiable debt in a standard unit, such as coinage) was created by early states to lock subjects into what anthropologist David Graeber has called the "military–coinage–slave complex". Money cannot be separated from state violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

This is an excellent reply. That said, we'd need to agree on definitions of "state" here. Some kinds of money surely existed before anything recognizable as a "state", but then again, such notions of money are likely as meaningless as this kind of unrecognizable state.

>Some kinds of money surely existed before anything recognizable as a "state"

I wouldn't be so sure. As far as I know, current academic consensus is that in primitive societies, where everyone knows everyone, it comes down to a system of favors and everyones natural sense of what's "fair". These are relatively small groups of people, so there's a lot of trust involved. No need for any sort of currency there

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