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India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

nytimes.com

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Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#131

Post by L_226 »

fellellor wrote: post #46
andrewwharton wrote: post #37

Ha! Try telling this to the current Australian government... The current narrative is that India desperately needs coal and our coal is the cleanest, so we need to dig it up [1] and sell it to them to help fight climate change, because otherwise they're going to get 'dirtier' coal from somewhere else. If you disagree, then you believe that Indians don't deserve electricity. And this isn't a strawman, this is almost v…

India imports a huge amount of coal from Australia because of local restrictions on mining, by the way. Otherwise we have one of the largest coal reserves on the planet. Digging up coal to fight climate change is just silly, and I doubt that flies anywherre.

> Digging up coal to fight climate change is just silly, and I doubt that flies anywhere.

Well, it's trying really hard [0] to fly here in Australia.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsUYltcJZU

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#132

Post by kornish »

agumonkey wrote: post #121
L_Rahman wrote: post #3

Parts of the theory of disruption - specifically that an entity with less entrenched structures, can solve problems in more efficient ways - applies to nation states as well. When 25% of your country has no electricity at all, you get to imagine parts of your grid from the ground up. If there's an expectation of load-shedding and your grid doesn't have to be at a 100% in all places, you have room to make mistakes. Mo…

is "theory of disruption" a new term ? Does it deal with other structural resistance ? Such as big companies unable to decide whether to keep reaping benefits of past success or saw their own branch to evolve the market into a new and probably better state ?

"Disruption" frequently refers to the ideas discussed by Professor Clayton Christensen, who's written some books on the topic. Good jumping off points here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovatio

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#133

Post by manquer »

e9 wrote: post #120
manquer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with not doing per capita is that you valuing each person differently arbitrarily basis their nationality... You can for example combine EU into one entity and say they pollute a lot. Or split china/india/US into 50 countries and say they don't contribute much individually. In effect favouring being born lucky.. in any random sample of the world population you have 33% chance of being born in just 2 count…

ok, seems like we are looking at this from different perspectives. You look at it from fairness to people and I look at it from fairness to earth. I argue that because pollution is so concentrated within the area, it destroys that part of earth more, this does not include anything to do with fairness towards people. But you are absolutely right if you look at it from perspective of being fair towards people. I am not…

I agree per capita/ per country is not the best way. Ultimately it comes to each individual don't you think ? . What does each every one of us directly or indirectly contribute . Any other grouping like country is always going to be arbitrary.. we need to each individually, in local, regional, national government, vote for the people who care and do the best we can irrespective what any one is doing or not. We need make them reduce too yes, but getting our shit together should be the priority

You are correct environment is not reason we should be worried . it is about the people, not the planet. 99% of the all species are already extinct one more large scale extinction event while terrible is not the end of life on this planet and the planet has seen far worse, life will survive long after we are gone. Sea level raise will adversely 60 % of the human population who live in the coast many of whom are poor. Changing weather patterns and climate change will affect the developing countries far more than first world countries who will have the resources to manage the effects . There are whole island countries that will disappear within the turn of the century. This is why developing countries are in very touch spot, they will need to balance both development of basic services and also find a meaningful solution to the problem.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#134

Post by cygx »

e9 wrote: post #124
matt4077 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> am I wrong? Yes. Area doesn't consume energy, people do. Otherwise Russia would be the most eco-friendly country in the world, and something like Luxembourg should be considered an abject failure of environmental policy.

I am just stating that more pollution per square foot will destroy that part of earth more and therefore damage environment more. So objectively speaking you are correct, social issues aside, Luxembourg should be considered an abject failure of environmental policy. But the issue of pollution is complicated and involves social issues so my perspective is not very helpful when you make policy decisions or include fair…

I am just stating that more pollution per square foot will destroy that part of earth more and therefore damage environment more.

CO2 does not care about which piece of land it gets emitted from: As far as the main subject under discussion goes (in contrast to, say, air quality), pollution per square foot is an utterly meaningless metric.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#135

Post by Retric »

kartickv wrote: post #64
orasis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you earned a noteworthy amount of interest on a bank deposit?

Not many in India would see things the way you do. Why lose interest if you can get it, particularly if you don't have more interest coming in from mutual funds or someplace else? If anything, the competition is on to see who'll pay more interest. One payments bank announced 7%: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/personal-finance-...

What's the post inflation adjusted interest rate? Because simply moving your money to a low inflation currency does the same thing.

The only catch is that the payments banks, which do not offer loans and several other facilities offered by full fledged rivals, are not allowed to accept deposits beyond Rs 1 lakh in bank accounts, which will have the same number as your mobile number. Bharti Airtel chairman Sunil Bharti Mittal said that the higher interest rate and freebies such as life insurance of up to Rs 1 lakh was an "introductory offer" and the rates would go down in a falling interest rate environment

Ahh, nm. This is just a fixed amount of cash they hand you for switching banks not a full time interest rate.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#136

Post by golergka »

andrewwharton wrote: post #37

Ha! Try telling this to the current Australian government... The current narrative is that India desperately needs coal and our coal is the cleanest, so we need to dig it up [1] and sell it to them to help fight climate change, because otherwise they're going to get 'dirtier' coal from somewhere else. If you disagree, then you believe that Indians don't deserve electricity. And this isn't a strawman, this is almost v…

That's so weird. Why does he have to come up with weird justifications to digging up and selling something that people are willing to buy?

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#137

Post by digital_ins »

jpatokal wrote: post #45

Last I checked, the reason India's coal power plants were running at 60% was not because of lack of demand, but because fixed prices make it uneconomical to produce coal and the government monopoly Coal India is utterly incompetent and inefficient even by Indian government standards...

You should look up the NTPC chairman's explanation for why average PLF runs below 75%.

Apparently, the transmission & distribution network for evacuation is overburdened already. This results in plants running below their rated capacities.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#138

Post by rbg246 »

threeseed wrote: post #99
andrewwharton wrote: post #37

Ha! Try telling this to the current Australian government... The current narrative is that India desperately needs coal and our coal is the cleanest, so we need to dig it up [1] and sell it to them to help fight climate change, because otherwise they're going to get 'dirtier' coal from somewhere else. If you disagree, then you believe that Indians don't deserve electricity. And this isn't a strawman, this is almost v…

You're missing the other side of the story. Which is that the current Australian government has also been undermining the renewable energy sector for years forcing projects to be cancelled and talent to leave overseas. I've never understood given how decent Australia through the CSIRO has been at commercialising innovation why we never invested more in the renewable energy sector.

I would expect it's partly because coal royalties paid to the state government for every tonne they dig up keep underpin the state government budgets.

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#139

Post by [deleted] »

hibikir wrote: post #28
thevardanian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I don't understand is why it's assumed that somehow the Paris Treaty is somehow enforced, or binding, or that it will even actually improve conditions more-so than independent initiative. I personally think that the USA can achieve its goal without the Paris Treaty through personal responsibility of the states, and independent initiatives through counties, and cities. That type of independent resolution is…

Treaties like this have a big signaling component, just like macroeconomics. Improvements are perfectly possible without them, but even a toothless treaty affects all kinds of decisions downstream. We also take into account that energy production is about large capital investments that aren't looking at tomorrow, but a decade or two ahead at the minimum. Building a new coal plant today isn't a bad idea because it'll…

[deleted]

Re: India, Once a Coal Goliath, Is Fast Turning Green

#140

Post by hyperbovine »

hibikir wrote: post #28
thevardanian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I don't understand is why it's assumed that somehow the Paris Treaty is somehow enforced, or binding, or that it will even actually improve conditions more-so than independent initiative. I personally think that the USA can achieve its goal without the Paris Treaty through personal responsibility of the states, and independent initiatives through counties, and cities. That type of independent resolution is…

Treaties like this have a big signaling component, just like macroeconomics. Improvements are perfectly possible without them, but even a toothless treaty affects all kinds of decisions downstream. We also take into account that energy production is about large capital investments that aren't looking at tomorrow, but a decade or two ahead at the minimum. Building a new coal plant today isn't a bad idea because it'll…

More than half of the US live in big cities, a number which is only going to get bigger. The 20 largest MSAs account for about a third of the population of our country. Getting a comparatively small number of mayors, governors, and state legislatures on board could go a long way towards reducing our carbon emissions, even as Washington aimlessly spins its wheels for another administration or three.
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