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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

bbc.com

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Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#131

Post by yogeshimac »

kahrkunne wrote: post #101
dschulz wrote: post #71

"by the end of 2017"? This must be a joke. Why not earlier? Why do they have to wait a whole year to enforce a ban like this? It's almost like "China announces ban on human trafficking by end of 2017". Yeah, let's give criminals some time to find new career opportunities!

Considering they need to inform everyone of this, think of strategies to effectively combat ivory trading, etcetera, 1 year is a very small time period.

Wouldn't it be better if they finalized their plans before announcing something like this? this could very well make the poachers ramp up whatever they were doing, me thinks.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#132

Post by vogt »

Rapzid wrote: post #94
mingdingo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as put in place some animal cruelty laws. You would hold your head in your hands if you saw what happens. For dogs, for example, they will tie their front legs together BEHIND their back (YES, DISLOCATING THEM), and leave them tied up like that with a tin can over their mouth until they're ready to deal with them. They'll even hold the dogs legs like a "handle" while carrying them around. I've never seen crue…

I'm not really squeamish, and I'm cognisant of the cultural difference but.. I would caution people against image searching for tied up dogs in the context of China unless you're prepared for some pretty shocking stuff.

The way that the Chinese treat animals is despicable. We in the US aren't far off, but they take it to another level.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#133

Post by aaron695 »

Sorry but I find most comments here @#!@ing inane.

We kill millions of pigs every year (intelligent animals) and farm millions of cows (Extinct many many animals through environmental destruction through use of large amounts of land) but we expect China to care about the second hand effects of the ivory trade.

Where they still have millions living in poverty, we are rich (speaking as a westerner who eats meat, not all of HN)

We love to be racist don't we?

I guess if we convince the Chinese the Rape of Nanking was cows and not elephants they can become like us.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#134

Post by mingdingo »

vogt wrote: post #132
Rapzid wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really squeamish, and I'm cognisant of the cultural difference but.. I would caution people against image searching for tied up dogs in the context of China unless you're prepared for some pretty shocking stuff.

The way that the Chinese treat animals is despicable. We in the US aren't far off, but they take it to another level.

Yeah if China became like the (highly imperfect) US it would still be a major win.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#135

Post by grenoire »

blondie9x wrote: post #67

This is really great news! But we can go even further, let's continue with banning Rhino horn markets (would we call it keratin markets rather than ivory?). Keratin would be primary component here, the same protein that makes human fingernails also is what composes Rhino horns. http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-vietnam-rhino-traf... In Vietnam and some of China there are some who cling to a belief that eating…

The beliefs are not based on the chemicals in the horns, but rather on a spiritual level. It's rather difficult fighting belief and tradition with international trade and anti-poaching policies.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#136

Post by Ar-Curunir »

lobotryas wrote: post #106
mingdingo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree the West needs to improve animal welfare even further. But SOME cruelty laws are better than NONE, which is why I bring up China more. But you're totally right, there's awful stuff going on here, too.

Here's an interesting point: do we know that the poultry/fish industries can absorb the cost of "humanely" raiding these animals without collapsing? Assuming the money is there and this law would not kill an industry, how can we ensure that these cost increases are not passed on to the consumer? Living in the US is expensive enough. Would you guarantee "ethical eggs" if the cost was fewer poor people could afford the…

Maybe Americans would not consume (per capita) more than most nations if food was more expensive.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#137

Post by jlg23 »

lobotryas wrote: post #106
mingdingo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree the West needs to improve animal welfare even further. But SOME cruelty laws are better than NONE, which is why I bring up China more. But you're totally right, there's awful stuff going on here, too.

Here's an interesting point: do we know that the poultry/fish industries can absorb the cost of "humanely" raiding these animals without collapsing? Assuming the money is there and this law would not kill an industry, how can we ensure that these cost increases are not passed on to the consumer? Living in the US is expensive enough. Would you guarantee "ethical eggs" if the cost was fewer poor people could afford the…

> do we know that the poultry/fish industries can absorb the cost of "humanely" raiding these animals without collapsing?

Enter the Tardis, go back 200 years and replace "poultry/fish" with "cotton/tobacco" and "eggs" with "fabric".

I don't think the industry needs to absorb those costs. Food is not expensive, we are just too stupid to eat it. It is ridiculously cheap since the industrialization of its production:

* We got used to only eating the very best. Lots of fruit does never reach the consumer because it does not look "nice" enough.

* We don't plan anymore. "Chicken today, we'll use the stock tomorrow for $this and the day after we can use the leftovers of $this for $that." That too comes with a high price.

* We became squeamish: A lot of meat that was regularly eaten just 50 years ago completely disappeared from our menus (tongue, liver, kidney, heart, tail, testicles, intestines). Since you are already paying for those parts, why not eat them?

* We have sacrificed the local workers' kitchen for the reliability of fast food chains: 365 days the same menu. That means 365 days of constant quality - pretty expensive when compared to the chef who goes to the market every day, picks what is good and affordable (which usually translates to "in season") and offers a good, simple and home cooked meal for $2.

* We are completely detached from our food: Who can, without googling, name 3 varieties of apples, how they taste and where they are used best? How much bread does a 10 by 10 meter field of wheat yield?

And by "we" I mean the US and Europe, in most other parts of the world people have a much, much healthier relation with their food.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#138

Post by shaobo »

DoodleBuggy wrote: post #18
hashkb wrote: post #9

OK... how about rhino horn? Compared to rhinos, elephants are in zero danger. Not defending poachers, but this is the wrong thing to prioritize. (Also cheetahs, and probably a lot of other species)

Ivory and tusks, rhino horn, pangolin scales, tiger penis, tiger pelts, tiger paws, turtle shells, shark fins, the list goes on and on and on... a trip to a generic street market in China and you can find endangered animal species parts being sold openly for shockingly cheap. How about banning any and all animal products involved in the quackery "medicine" trade or ludicrous edible "delicacy" which are the driving fo…

If they are "shockingly cheap" and can be found in a street market, then they are probably not real.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#139

Post by shaobo »

yogeshimac wrote: post #131
kahrkunne wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering they need to inform everyone of this, think of strategies to effectively combat ivory trading, etcetera, 1 year is a very small time period.

Wouldn't it be better if they finalized their plans before announcing something like this? this could very well make the poachers ramp up whatever they were doing, me thinks.

So they should be less transparent?

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#140

Post by shaobo »

c3534l wrote: post #129

Am I the only one shocked to learn that ivory was still legal in China? I know China has a reputation for being a bit dystopian, but I thought this was one of those things that everyone agreed on.

I think the bar for real-life dystopias are considerably higher these days.
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