Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#131

Post by languagewars » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:23 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #107

mverwijs wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With closed source software, such as the firmwares and MacOSes of the world, it is impossible to have 'checks and balances'. Yet without computers to run and develop open software on, it is that much harder to create alternatives to those closed systems. I think this is very much a sliding scale. And that therefor the quote very much applies.

I'm still a bit flabbergasted: you really truly believe that disallowing installing Linux on a particular brand/model of laptop is directly comparable to the forced labor and extermination of millions of Jewish people during WW2?

I believe control and misuse of computers will have everything to do with the next genocide of that scale and had a bit to do with that one. I also believe genocides like that start with an alignment of corporate interests and government interests against individual privacy interests.

Certainly bugs in Telegram and the use of the wrong social software among dissidents (or software that unknowingly leaks, or is endemic like windows) has everything to do with how they are spied upon. Many of those dissidents are from ethnic minorities that are targeted or will be targeted.

The holocaust was a terrible thing, but not talking about any road signs to the next genocides to avoid upsetting people isn't the prevention mechanism my history teachers had in mind.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#132

Post by simophin » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:23 AM UTC

disgusting company. it's the first time I'm ashamed of being a Chinese

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#133

Post by detaro » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:23 AM UTC

alphadevx wrote: post #122

Get a Developer Edition XPS 13 from Dell instead, comes with Linux pre-installed. I have one and they are awesome, if manufacturers support Linux they get my $.

I wish they made a convertible version, but it seems like convertible and linux friendly doesn't really exist on the market right now...

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#134

Post by godmodus » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:23 AM UTC

hatmatrix wrote: post #101

kennell wrote: post #93

Amazing how Lenovo managed to turn "Thinkpad", a respected and loved brand name, into shit within just a few years.

Most of the problems are with the non-Thinkpad line, no?

They're not as water resistant or as durable as they used to be, intact, not at all. I've been using thinkpads for 10 years. I've had a p61, x200, x201s and an x230. The x230 is when it started to break down. It's a shit laptop. Ive also worked on an T440 and upgraded it's ram for a colleague - it's extremely hard to open.

Sad to see such a loved frame be butchered like that.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#135

Post by ThePhysicist » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:24 AM UTC

ensiferum wrote: post #120

I have been a long time ThinkPad user and recently purchased my latest ThinkPad T460p. Sadly it has some issues, the latest NVidia drivers don't work on the device but I'm forced to use the 1 year old driver that Lenovo provides in their packages. Figuring this out took my several days of trouble shooting (only dx9 was affected). Also the system fan is constantly running. I went to their support site and the online s…

I bought a T460p a few months back, and while it's a very good laptop for the price it had a very annoying problem with the Trackpad that would occasionally just stop working after suspending the laptop (and only doing a cold reboot with all power cords removed would fix this). Sadly it took Lenovo two weeks to send a technician with a replacement part to fix the issue, contrary to their "24 hour target" advertised on the website. A few years ago customer support was much more responsive, so it seems that they are indeed trying to cut costs in that area.

That said, I also use a X1 Carbon, which runs great with Linux and doesn't have any problems at all concerning hardware and drivers (graphics card, mobile broadband, two external monitors via DP all works flawlessly and the battery lasts 6-8 hours under normal use). I'm confident that the Linux support for the T460p will improve as well as developers have time to write better drivers, after all it's still pretty new hardware (barely six months old).

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#136

Post by wastedhours » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:29 AM UTC

wazoox wrote: post #53

dewiz wrote: post #42

Maybe someone can help me understanding. Why is it OK to lock down smartphones, TV devices, consoles, but not OK for PCs?

When was it okay to prevent me to do what I want to something I own ? Absolutely never ever. Region locking of DVDs, DRMs of all sorts, smartphones locking are plain, shameless abuse. It's however particularly unacceptable to lock down what used to be open.

Is worth saying that for most things, you buy them in the state they're in - there's no "right" to openness, as much as we might want it. Just because you own a house, doesn't mean you can just put a 6 storey extension in the garden.

Then tension is that we've almost always been able to install Linux on standard Windows machines and so have gotten used to it being open, but I'd be loathed to say (if the manufacturers have decided to make it tricky deliberately or just not thinking) we have a fundamental right to do it.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#137

Post by alphadevx » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:30 AM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #125

alphadevx wrote: post #122

Get a Developer Edition XPS 13 from Dell instead, comes with Linux pre-installed. I have one and they are awesome, if manufacturers support Linux they get my $.

I bought a Lenovo X1 Carbon (most recent gen) and really regret it for a great many reasons. Wish I had gone for the XPS. Actually what swayed me was the very slightly larger screen.

I think you can get 15" models from Dell under their "Project Sputnik" program too, well worth following Barton's blog for news on that: http://bartongeorge.io/

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#138

Post by jonathanstrange » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

colemickens wrote: post #16

Which is more likely? That Lenovo shipped a crappy BIOS, like plenty of OEMs have done before? Or that Microsoft is engaging in a covert conspiracy to block Linux users via forcing Lenovo to put the HD into Intel RST mode rather than ACHI? It just doesn't make a bit of sense. If Microsoft wanted to block Linux, they would just require that SecureBoot not be disabled and require disablement of user key enrollment. Bes…

Yes, both are very likely. At the same time.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#139

Post by wolfgke » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #136

wazoox wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was it okay to prevent me to do what I want to something I own ? Absolutely never ever. Region locking of DVDs, DRMs of all sorts, smartphones locking are plain, shameless abuse. It's however particularly unacceptable to lock down what used to be open.

Is worth saying that for most things, you buy them in the state they're in - there's no "right" to openness, as much as we might want it. Just because you own a house, doesn't mean you can just put a 6 storey extension in the garden. Then tension is that we've almost always been able to install Linux on standard Windows machines and so have gotten used to it being open, but I'd be loathed to say (if the manufacturers…

> there's no "right" to openness

But there is a right not to buy this stuff and a right to tell other people not to buy it, too. There is also a right to tell the vendors how much you abhor them for selling such closed products and there is a right to tell journalists or other people why buying closed products is a really bad idea. And you have a right to lobby to make producing/buying closed products socially unacceptable.

Re: Linux can’t be installed on a recent Lenovo laptop

#140

Post by vertex-four » Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 9:34 AM UTC

gmazza wrote: post #61

tzs wrote: post #2

It sounds like Lenovo's BIOS is using a RAID mode with the internal SSD that Linux does not understand. Lenovo apparently provides a driver for this RAID mode for Windows 10. If you want to install something else (Linux, Windows 8) you are out of luck until someone produces a driver for that operating system.

If this [1] Lenovo employee's answer is a real deal, and this was in fact sanctioned by MS, I wonder if their actual goal was to prevent people from installing Windows 8/7/whatever. MS did go on record by saying they are willing to block people from installing old versions on new hardware. [2] [1] http://imgur.com/a/niewu [2] http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10780876/microsoft-windows...

Given the quality of answers to questions that I'm used to by computer manufacturer "product experts" online... it's really unlikely that that's actually the case.