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Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

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131–140 of 155 posts

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#131
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or look at Hong Kong and Singapore.

That's twice you've said that, care to elaborate? Hong Kong 6,544/km2 17,024/sq mi Singapore: 7,697/km2 19,910/sq mi

Singapore is reasonably dense as a whole for around 5 million people.

If you look at the high numbers for Barcelona, Hamburg or Paris, that's only the urban core. Singapore, of course, also has a denser core.

(And what scythe said about Hong Kong.)

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#132
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or look at Hong Kong and Singapore.

That's twice you've said that, care to elaborate? Hong Kong 6,544/km2 17,024/sq mi Singapore: 7,697/km2 19,910/sq mi

Those numbers are the population densities for the whole countries. I wasn't able to find densities for the urban areas of Hong Kong or Singapore.

Btw, Monaco is at 48 462 people per mi2.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#133
post #129
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the last part, having mixed-zone development is essential. Put housing above supermarkets! Offices inside apartment complexes! Make it easy for people to walk around. I think that people don't need convincing not to use their cars... it's more that the space needs to be built in a way to where cars are not necessary.

Like Tokyo?

Or for a more American example. Denver has been doing a good job with their new construction over the last few years. While I haven't looked into actual codes, the majority of new buildings I've seen have work/live offices or full-on commercial zoning on floor 1 and dense luxury apartments on 2~20;

Denver is also investing quite heavily into public transit, specifically they've been working on a fairly impressive light-rail system. [1]

At the end of the day, it's simple density that allows me to live inside the city and bike 15 minutes to work. City life isn't perfect for everyone but it does offer some great benefits if we go dense.

[1] http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/se_68

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#134
post #93
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that new construction doesn't help anyone but wealthy people in SF, today. If you build more luxury housing it lowers the price of luxury housing so that a marginally less rich person can move to that tier. That marginal move reduces the demand on the next lower tier of housing which should reduce the price at that level. And so on, and so on...

Can you promise that

Only in the same sense that you can promise that an apple released from your hand will fall to the earth and not hover in mid-air.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#135
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an interesting comparison. New York City's population density is 56% higher than San Francisco's, and the average height of a building in New York City is only 6.8 stories (in spite of skyscrapers pushing up the mean). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... http://www.sunilmishra.in/2012/07/05/average-building-height...

Do you happen to know how many units the largest residential building in NYC has? It would be interesting to know the minimum number of buildings needed to cover the 200k unit deficit. [edit] Thanks for all the replies! So it looks like we are talking about a minimum of hundreds of buildings to be torn-down and rebuilt taller. That seems unlikely to happen in SF proper.

Not one building, but the Stuyvesant Town complex in Manhattan has 30,000+ residents and it sits on 80 acres with 89 buildings, and lots of green space, basketball courts, etc. It's a very livable place.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#136
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HA! San Fransisco is a dirty, 2 fisted drinking town, full-stop. It is not 'one of the most beautiful cities in the world'. Try Hamburg or Vienna. It is a port of call for those looking to escape polite society, be they gays, Chicanos, drunk miners, Russian trappers, whores, Burners, or whatever else isn't talked about on 5th Ave. Do not delude yourself into thinking San Fransisco's people care about anything but the…

That's a nice, romantic point view of the world to have. But the reality of the city's history and demographics is far more staid. And the people living there just want jobs, affordable housing, and better public transportation just like anywhere else. And streets that don't flood during storms, and air they can breathe.

SF is not the world. The POV is of SF city only.

SF also does actually sit right on top of a fault line, so it is not a staid place by any stretch of the mind. It was just over 100 years ago the entire place burnt to the ground and was rebuilt by greedy logger barons (Cowell, Lick, etc.). It is a matter of time before another bad quake happens again, though maybe to Market as badly the next time. I agree they want the amenities, but SF is a port and it needs its vices, despite all calls to the contrary. People that need the amenities move to Napa or Dublin. Also, SF has never had real problems with flooding like St. Louis does (see: the hills) or the bad air like on Mexico City or LA (see: the bay fog rolling in).

I've no idea what drives the romanticism when you can smell the streets even in the rain. Then again, the French are like that and their streets are covered in doggy land-mines like SF's are.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#137
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HA! San Fransisco is a dirty, 2 fisted drinking town, full-stop. It is not 'one of the most beautiful cities in the world'. Try Hamburg or Vienna. It is a port of call for those looking to escape polite society, be they gays, Chicanos, drunk miners, Russian trappers, whores, Burners, or whatever else isn't talked about on 5th Ave. Do not delude yourself into thinking San Fransisco's people care about anything but the…

Sounds like my kind of town

It is very charming once you get past the slurs. Folk are nice, if stabby and strung-out.

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#139
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. This article talks about housing in Japan depreciating rapidly: http://www.archdaily.com/450212/why-japan-is-crazy-about-hou... , a contrast to the U.S., where to some extent, properties gain in value. (Mostly the land value, but to a certain extent the structures as well). I think it's reasonable that a 2+4 building built today last 20-30 years, is depreciated, and then…

It's a plausible strategy as long as it's part of the plan. If you're in an environment that that makes construction difficult then cheap may not be the best choice. Seattle still has too many taxes and fees for my liking. I appreciate the desire for below market rate units and and low income housing fees. But it's completely ass backwards. Taxes are disincentives. Don't disincentivize the thing you want more of! Dev…

Fellow Seattlite here... Do you have details on those building restrictions? I'm trying to come up to speed, but the complications of building in the city are more than I was bargaining for...

Context for non-locals: Seattle is on track to become SF with about 100k new residents each year and an already large housing shortage. The city is struggling to combat it, with regulations designed to force new construction to include affordable units, rather than letting existing inventory move down market with age. If they're taxing dense construction on top of it, I'm inclined to make a few calls to learn more...

Re: Employment, construction, and the cost of San Francisco apartments

#140
post #6

> It will be very hard. If the (first) model is correct, it would take a 53% increase in the housing supply (200,000 new units), Doesn't seem that hard in a city full of three-story housing.

You could just let Google build 300 of these https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superjednostka#/media/File:Kat... on closest possible lots.

https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Superjednostka,+aleja+Korfa...

Googleplex to scale: https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Googleplex/@37.42302,-122.0...

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