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Caffeine use disorder

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Re: Caffeine use disorder

#131

Post by reitanqild »

pixelperfect wrote: post #113
jawilson2 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excedrin worked for me before I quit coffee. Also, since starting a low-carb keto diet two years ago, I haven't had a single migraine (I used to get 2-3 per month, both painful ones and visual auras). When I was a pediatric neurology prof a few years ago, a keto diet was standard of care for the kids, and the department was starting research into keto for chronic migraines. Give it a try!

I had the same result after switching to a keto diet 10 months ago. Do you know if there are any research papers on this? I was really surprised how effective the change in diet was because I did it on a whim without receiving medical advice.

Not exactly research paper, and not migraine but it was mentioned in a ted(x?) talk linked from HN a week ago or so IIRC. The talk was about keto and cancer but touched into keto against epilepsy as well. I think the Charlie Foundation or something was mentioned as well.

Maybe some of that research can hold some pointers?

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#132

Post by eru »

adrusi wrote: post #107
Odin78 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many cups of coffee did you drink per day? I limit myself to one cup a day and I feel like it has very little impact on my alertness and energy levels. Do you think just one cup a day already makes your body build a tolerance?

Yes, your body will build a tolerance to any amount of anything you put into it, if you're doing so frequently. It's easier to form a tolerance to small quantities than large quantities. The best way to avoid forming a tolerance is to use large, infrequent doses. In other words, drink a few energy drinks once a week for an all-nighter instead of cup of coffee every morning. Heavy, infrequent use also makes it easier…

> The best way to avoid forming a tolerance is to use large, infrequent doses. In other words, drink a few energy drinks once a week for an all-nighter instead of cup of coffee every morning.

Not that you should do an all-nighter in the first place.

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#134

Post by togedoge »

jon-wood wrote: post #34
randallsquared wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly personal, and there's no substitute for experiment. My rule is no (caffeinated) soda within an hour of bedtime, and no coffee within 3-4 hours, so the variation is wide. I don't smoke, by the way. As an aside, the whole "8 hour half-life" is astonishingly high, to me. Caffeine is nice, but it doesn't seem to have that strong an effect on me, and certainly nothing I notice 5-8 hours after. I drink quite…

As you say, the variation is wide. I can drink tea up until about 6pm without any problems, but if I have even one coffee after lunchtime I'm going to be up half the night regretting it.

Depending on the type of tea you drink, this could be due to the calming effects of l-theanine [1] in tea.

I have the genes that extend caffeine half-life. If I drink an American large coffee, I get anxious. I can drink a whole pot or two of green tea and feel a nice lift in mood.

As others have mentioned, any coffee after noon and I can't fall asleep until around 2am. I avoid caffeine most days except for the occasional morning kombucha.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics/wiki/faq#wiki_l-theanine

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#135

Post by togedoge »

TACIXAT wrote: post #126
cosmolev wrote: post #109

I would argue that the most commonly used drug is not caffeine, but sugar.

I've cut out a ton of foods in my life to fix various issues with my body. Sugar is one that remains because it causes me no ill effect. Caffeine was giving me withdrawal headaches if I slept in and missed my schedule.

On the flip side, I get tend to get inflammation when I consume too many added sugars. This usually manifests as joint pain, headaches, and breakouts. It has forced me to have a much healthier diet. Thanks for sharing your insights!

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#137

Post by CptJamesCook »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #124
CptJamesCook wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to 80 mgs of caffeine, a redbull has 1000 mgs of a stimulant called taurine.

Taurine is not a stimulant. Unless you have some research to prove otherwise?

It is a stimulant biologically. Stimulants are labelled based on effects, not chemical structure.

Based on increases in neurotransmitter activity, heart rate, and dozens of other measures, taurine is a stimulant.

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#138

Post by mdip »

tylermac1 wrote: post #64
mdip wrote: post #39

I discovered that if I only consumed caffeine when I had a Migraine headache, that it was the most effective medicine I could take provided I didn't already have a tolerance built up so I gave up caffeine in my 20s. Frankly, it was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I was plagued with minor but persistent headaches for almost a month and was exhausted most of that time since I was used to grabbing a cup of coff…

What was the medicine that ended up helping your migraines? I suffer from migraines semi-regularly and have at separate times taken Maxalt, Imitrex, or generic OTC migraine meds + caffeine.

I've had Migraine for the last 20 years of my life, on and off, about monthly in the summer/winter and 4-8/month in the spring and fall. The frequency of the problem actually caused me to write a Visual Studio plug-in so I could use my monitor in low-contrast in a dark bedroom.

I didn't share the medication in the original post because there are a lot of caveats, but I take Depakote at 250mg twice daily and it works completely without side-effects (same dosage for 1.5 years and not a single instance of Migraine).

I happened upon this cure by accident, though, due to my body's intolerance for a myriad of common medicines used for Migraine treatment (and nothing OTC worked except Caffeine)

I cannot take Triptans (Maxalt/Imitrex). They work, but with huge mood side-effects. I was prescribed an anti-depressant (name escapes me) that showed promise in Migraine prevention. I got a Migraine headache while I was taking the anti-depressant and took a Maxalt (OKed by the doctor) and was hospitalized with Serotonin Syndrom. I cannot take anti-depressants, I learned later, due to my genetics[1].

I've seen many specialists but it wasn't until this hospital visit (on a holiday) followed by a misdiagnosis, that I was prescribed a rather high dose of Depakote (1000mg/day). It was prescribed in August and when I went through September without Migraine (this has never happened according to my log), I brought it to the attention of my headache specialist. He reduced the dosage at my request (Depakote is prescribed for BiPolar--an illness I do not have--and at the original dose, I felt emotionally flat[2]). At 500mg/day (2 doses), I don't have a single side-effect (other than headache relief, which is not why it is usually prescribed) and have been on that dose for 1.5 years without a single headache.

My headache specialist said that some of his other patients got relief from this medicine but that it's hit/miss. My experience is that this drug is basically everything you'd ever want in a treatment -- side-effect free, and works 100% of the time for me.

[1] Genesight test indicates that the medicine will remain in my system far longer than it should. I strongly recommend paying for this since it would have saved me a trip to the hospital. All of the SSRI medicines are in the high risk category for me. Glad I've never experienced depression!

[2] Nothing like the movies where a guy walks around with no expression on their face staring blankly. The best way I can describe it is that when something would happen and my wife would react, I'd feel like "Data from Star Trek" not understanding why she was reacting so strongly/emotionally. At this dose, I have the same level of intensity I'm used to.

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#139

Post by mdip »

klodolph wrote: post #120
mdip wrote: post #39

I discovered that if I only consumed caffeine when I had a Migraine headache, that it was the most effective medicine I could take provided I didn't already have a tolerance built up so I gave up caffeine in my 20s. Frankly, it was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I was plagued with minor but persistent headaches for almost a month and was exhausted most of that time since I was used to grabbing a cup of coff…

Interesting that you mention migraines. I get occasional (very rare) migraines, and my mother and brother also get them, although they have it worse than I do. My mother used to take caffeine to make a migraine go away, but she believed that the continued use of caffeine (even only to mitigate migraines) made the migraines worse in the long run. It had something to do with the effect of caffeine on blood vessel size,…

the continued use of caffeine (even only to mitigate migraines)

I agree with that statement. It would reduce them by about 80% but during the fall/spring when I would get many in a row, they'd be more intense and caffeine would work less effectively.

Unfortunately, with pain, there are a lot of variables at play, here, so I'm not sure if it was tolerance and worse headaches or if it was perception that they were worse as a result of fatigue from the "OMG, another one?!" For me, it wasn't such a dramatic difference that I could convince myself that the caffeine was not working any longer. It was never "nearly gone" vs "barely helps" for me, but a feeling like they were getting, maybe, 10% worse each time. Duration was also, unfortunately, pretty consistent around 2-3 days (with day 3 being nearly symptom free).

Re: Caffeine use disorder

#140

Post by hellbanner »

zues wrote: post #130
hellbanner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try massaging yourself with heated sesame oil when you have a migraine. It's worked for me 4 times now.

I'm not sure if I should lol or thank you.

Both, if it works. I don't know the science behind it I just know that it's worked for me.
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