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Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

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Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices seem to be pretty volatile, indicating some difficulty filling demand. But, you know, I'm not a fortune 100 company, and this seems to have a reasonable shipping time: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167...

That's a consumer model - and I'd guess the 2.5in versions are selling faster than the PCIe add-on cards.

Yep, exactly this. You can generally find the add-on cards available, but most don't like them for replacement and quantity in a box reasons. They also don't fit in some of today's high density, multi node server chassis.

SFF-8639 (or U.2 as the branding is) is the way forward.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#132
post #64
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a throughput problem, not an activity problem. Normally, since the rows are a fixed size the dbms will lay them out sequentially on disk. So, when the database reads from disk unless you read every column in the row, the dbms has to skip over data. This is kind of a high level picture, but hopefully it illustrates the point. Nearly all of the tick (>4GB/day) databases I've used aren't laid row oriented.

This is so far off the mark.. Even in the absence of variable-width fields, the presence of nullable fields causes the majority of database tables to have variable-width rows. In any case, neither of these are reasons why common databases do or do not lay rows out sequentially on disk (some do, some don't). Even if the DB server selectively read columns of each row (none of the common open source SQL databases do), t…

Not trying to nitpick, but don't most people running MySQL with innodb set O_DIRECT?

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#133
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a guarantee. That's what "guarantee" means !

No, they offer a warranty. OP used the word guarantee.

A warranty is a guarantee. I used the word "guarantee" as well. It's the right word to use.

Seriously, what do you think a guarantee is?

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they offer a warranty. OP used the word guarantee.

A warranty is a guarantee. I used the word "guarantee" as well. It's the right word to use. Seriously, what do you think a guarantee is?

We guarantee these O-Rings will not rupture.

If these O-Rings rupture, we will replace them under warranty.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#135
post #97

Samsung can try to sell me 100TB SSD, and Ill decline thanks. Their EVO drives suffer from read degradation slowly over long periods of time. See EVO 840, after about a year it was down to 20MiB/s of continuous read speed. An SSD they call that thing. They refused warranty and released a "Speed up flash warez tool now.exe" as help, which all it did was move the data around on the SSD in the background so as to keep u…

Their Pro series drives have not been affected by any of the EVO issues to my knowledge.

The Evo Pro drive was the last one standing in a number of SSD burnout tests: http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experim...

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#136
post #5
post #2

Impressive. First question that pops into mind is how long the rebuild time would take if one of these failed in a RAID. I can imagine it'll take a while.

> 15.36TB > sequential read and write speeds of up to 1200MBps ~4 hours to read/write a whole drive ain't too bad. Of course there might be other bottlenecks in your raid, or you only reserve so much speed for rebuild, but the drives size is not the problem.

I'm kind of shocked that this drive is so slow. That's an impressive benchmark compared to your run of the mill consumer drives, but the new PCI-e drives Apple has been shipping are already beyond 2000Mbps.

http://blog.macsales.com/30725-owc-tests-speed-of-ssd-in-201...

I would've expected Samsung to be able to best that. They make the chips, after all.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#137
post #85
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first disk died late on Friday. I had two on-hand so I casually replaced it -- and before I got back to my desk another had died. That happens very very very often. It has nothing to do with a bad batch. The second disk actually failed a while ago, but no one noticed because no one read from that part of it. When you did the rebuild you read from the failed area and woke up the failure. When you setup raid you…

I think you have different definitions of failure. The previous person seems to claim it meant the disk was dead (i.e. no read works) while you seem to claim that it means an error caught by low level formatting. Those scrubs do nothing to catch errors that the drives do not report such as misdirected writes. Consequently, there is no correct way to setup RAID in a way that makes dats safe. A check summing filesystem…

> The previous person seems to claim it meant the disk was dead (i.e. no read works)

He made no such claim.

> while you seem to claim that it means an error caught by low level formatting.

A: There is no such thing as low level formatting in a modern drive, and B: No I don't. I said he should do a full disk read. Not format.

The SMART built in self-test does a full read of the drive, not write.

> Those scrubs do nothing to catch errors that the drives do not report such as misdirected writes.

That's only true with RAID 5. Ever other RAID level can compare disks and check that the data matches exactly. The Linux md software RAID does that automatically if you ask it to check things, and then it will report how many mismatches it found.

If you look he wrote: "I had to drop back to raid 5". He had a better level of RAID before, with multiple disk redundancy, that allows the RAID to check for mismatches and even correct them.

But because he never scheduled full disk reads the RAID never detected that many of the drives had problems.

> Consequently, there is no correct way to setup RAID in a way that makes dats safe.

That is not correct. The only advice I would give is avoid RAID 5. The other levels let you check for correctness.

> A check summing filesystem such as ZFS would handle this without a problem though.

Only if A: you actually run disk checks, B: and only if ZFS handles the RAID!!! ZFS on top of RAID will NOT detect such errors 50% of the time (randomly depending on which disk is read from).

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it need them? My memory seems to hold a lot of things, and the ability to look them up instantly (not counting the decompression delay AKA tip-of-the-tongue syndrome where you know you know something but can't recall it until it suddenly comes to you.)

If it comes to you. Sometimes biomemory just fails. In fact, it fails a whole lot, but the layer that does the access often just makes up something plausible to cover that fact. :)

It also writes every time it reads.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#139
post #137
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have different definitions of failure. The previous person seems to claim it meant the disk was dead (i.e. no read works) while you seem to claim that it means an error caught by low level formatting. Those scrubs do nothing to catch errors that the drives do not report such as misdirected writes. Consequently, there is no correct way to setup RAID in a way that makes dats safe. A check summing filesystem…

> The previous person seems to claim it meant the disk was dead (i.e. no read works) He made no such claim. > while you seem to claim that it means an error caught by low level formatting. A: There is no such thing as low level formatting in a modern drive, and B: No I don't. I said he should do a full disk read . Not format. The SMART built in self-test does a full read of the drive, not write. > Those scrubs do not…

Low level formatting exists on modern disks. You just are not able to reformat it. There is a diagram showing it here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2888

Doing a full read causes every sector's ECC in the low level formatting to be checked. If something is wrong, you get a read error that can be corrected by RAID, ZFS or whatever else you are running on top of it provides redundancy. Without the ECC, the self test mechanism would be pointless as it would have no way to tell if the magnetic signals being interpreted are right or wrong.

As for other RAID levels catching things. With RAID 1 and only two mirrors, there is no way to tell which is right either. The same goes for RAID 10 with two mirrors and RAID 0+1 with two mirrors. You might be able to tell with RAID 6, but such things are assumed by users rather than guaranteed. RAID was designed around the idea that uncorrectable bit errors and drive failures are the only failure states. It is incapable of handling silent corruption in general and in the few cases where it might be able to handle it, whether it does is implementation dependent. RAID 6 also degrades to RAID 5 when a disk fails and there is no way for a patrol scrub to catch a problem that occurs after it and before the next patrol scrub. RAID will happily return incorrect data, especially since only 1 mirror member is read at a given time (for performance) and only the data blocks in RAID 5/6 are read (again for performance) unless there is a disk failure.

There is no reason to use RAID with ZFS. However, ZFS will always detect silent corruption in what it reads even if it is on top of RAID. It just is not guarenteed to be able to correct it. Maybe you got the idea of "ZFS on top of RAID will NOT detect such errors 50% of the time" from thinking of a two-disk mirror. If you are using ZFS on RAID instead of letting ZFS have the disks and that happens, you really only have yourself to blame.

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