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Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

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Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#101

Post by antocv »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #100
antocv wrote: post #97

Samsung can try to sell me 100TB SSD, and Ill decline thanks. Their EVO drives suffer from read degradation slowly over long periods of time. See EVO 840, after about a year it was down to 20MiB/s of continuous read speed. An SSD they call that thing. They refused warranty and released a "Speed up flash warez tool now.exe" as help, which all it did was move the data around on the SSD in the background so as to keep u…

This is a completely different category of product than their low end consumer Evo drives, though.

Its the same company.

They marketed it as warranty so and so, speed such and such, and in fact its a piece of shit, and Samsung does not stand by its own product.

Even their newest Samsung EVO 850 is marketed as write speed ~500mb/s, but that is only true for the first 3gb, due to their usage of "TurboWriteCache", which means it has some kind of DRAM or faster real flash disk, and the rest of the disk is below 100mb/s in write speed.

Perhaps, they should not offer warranty on their "low-end consumer" drives, or lie in marketing/product specifications?

So that we as low-end consumers can make informed decisions? I bought SanDisk Extreme Pro instead, they are very fine disks, and did not cost much more than the evo. Recommend SanDisk strongly.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#102

Post by ianamartin »

scurvy wrote: post #51
_wmd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking for 2 major tech steppings in a single product. We don't even have many mass market NVMe drives yet, and that aside, they're undoubtedly pushing the limits of their existing controller tech just to handle the capacity. Has NVMe seen much enterprise adoption yet? No surprise they chose an interface to match their intended customers' existing product lines

> Has NVMe seen much enterprise adoption yet? Have you tried to buy one in the past year? If you're not in the Fortune 100, fat effing chance! Here's how it goes, Samsung announces NVMe product, companies beat down their door screaming "take my money!" and Samsung conveniently "cancels" the product for sale. They made it. They just sold their entire production run to a handful of customers. Maybe, just maybe you can…

Prices seem to be pretty volatile, indicating some difficulty filling demand.

But, you know, I'm not a fortune 100 company, and this seems to have a reasonable shipping time:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167...

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#103

Post by Razengan »

adevine wrote: post #31
userbinator wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more amazing is that it's still a long way to go compared to biological storage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4396931

But biological storage also doesn't have the random access characteristics and read/write speeds of this storage.

Does it need them? My memory seems to hold a lot of things, and the ability to look them up instantly (not counting the decompression delay AKA tip-of-the-tongue syndrome where you know you know something but can't recall it until it suddenly comes to you.)

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#104

Post by pilsetnieks »

cm2187 wrote: post #90
tim333 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung's 2TB SSD is $860 so maybe something like that. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-SATA-Internal-MZ-7KE2...

That's a consumer SSD. The 16TB looks like an enterprise SSD (much higher endurance).

You could extrapolate from the PM863 series which seems to be the closest to this: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Pm863-Internal-Solid-State/dp/...

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#105

Post by Razengan »

rjurney wrote: post #60
chime wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We put a couple of Intel 750s in our primary DB server and so many of our issues just went away instantly. Reading at 2GB/s is amazing. On a 10gb network, our network backups now happen at 1+GB/s. Of course we optimize our DB queries as much as possible but sometimes, you just hit a brick wall and can't speed things up because of how the data is structured. Instead of spending 100 developer/dbadmin hours on reorganiz…

Just wanted to say that this kind of real-world experience is why I read Hacker News.

Me as well. Discovering HN was such a refreshing respite from the thinly-veiled political soapbox that is Reddit.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#106

Post by BillyParadise »

antocv wrote: post #101
pilsetnieks wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a completely different category of product than their low end consumer Evo drives, though.

Its the same company. They marketed it as warranty so and so, speed such and such, and in fact its a piece of shit, and Samsung does not stand by its own product. Even their newest Samsung EVO 850 is marketed as write speed ~500mb/s, but that is only true for the first 3gb, due to their usage of "TurboWriteCache", which means it has some kind of DRAM or faster real flash disk, and the rest of the disk is below 100mb/…

So you wouldn't use a high end Cisco router because they make the crappy "cisco small business" line?

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#107

Post by BillyParadise »

justincormack wrote: post #99
phaemon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a guarantee. That's what "guarantee" means !

But in five years the cost of fulfilling it is low given falling prices.

and that's how companies can afford to offer guarantees.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#108

Post by Freaky »

rsync wrote: post #48
Freaky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As if both drives do exactly the same writes at the same time, chances are they will fail at the same time. You mean due to exhausting their endurance? This is something you monitor, you should have plenty of time to replace the drives before it becomes a concern. For other failures, how's it going to be any different from normal HD's? There's always the risk that having the same models/batches in the same conditio…

"You mean due to exhausting their endurance? This is something you monitor, you should have plenty of time to replace the drives before it becomes a concern. For other failures, how's it going to be any different from normal HD's? There's always the risk that having the same models/batches in the same conditions might lead to a cluster of failures, but RAID's still likely to save you from plenty of other failure mode…

> Physical drives fail due to physical reasons, but SSDs fail for logical reasons.

HDD's also have a long and distinguished history of nasty firmware bugs, and this is only going to get worse as things like drive-managed SMR and hybrid flash caches get more common and their internal complexity ramps up.

Both also fail due to electrical reasons. Chips fail due to manufacturing defects, solder degrades, capacitors dry out, etc.

And I'll reiterate the uncorrected bit error rate. Transient errors are more common with SSDs, and are unlikely to happen identically with multiple units.

> If you have a mirror, and you have two identical SSDs, and you produce such a condition ... then no more mirror. They both die identically

I have a pair of mirrored SanDisk Extreme Pro's in my main server. Both suffered from a firmware bug that caused data corruption. ZFS was able to repair all damage, because they didn't fail identically.

Also thanks to the mirror I was able to upgrade the firmware without taking the server down.

Mixing different SSDs might be a good idea, but you can make much the same arguments for doing the same with HDD's, and like with HDD's it's still better than nothing to have redundancy with "identical" drives.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#109

Post by Freaky »

cm2187 wrote: post #70
rsync wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You mean due to exhausting their endurance? This is something you monitor, you should have plenty of time to replace the drives before it becomes a concern. For other failures, how's it going to be any different from normal HD's? There's always the risk that having the same models/batches in the same conditions might lead to a cluster of failures, but RAID's still likely to save you from plenty of other failure mode…

I am actually referring to endurance. Irrespective of the RAID mode, I would expect each drive to be written exactly the same amount of data at the same time. If all models are identical and have been purchased at the same time, one would expect that the same firmware will allocate the same writes to the same cells (in RAID 1 it will be the same data, in RAID 5 the data will be slightly different, but the size will b…

> If all models are identical and have been purchased at the same time, one would expect that the same firmware will allocate the same writes to the same cells

Not really, you'd expect them to diverge over time as the cells aren't going to be all 100% identical - they'll have different failures, different error rates, and different read patterns will result in different read-disturb errors, all of which will effect even completely deterministic block allocation.

Regardless, as I said, you monitor endurance. Drives are unlikely to just silently wear out out of the blue unless you've been completely ignoring their SMART readings, in which case, more fool you.

Re: Samsung ships the world's highest capacity SSD, with 15TB of storage

#110

Post by virtuallynathan »

ianamartin wrote: post #102
scurvy wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has NVMe seen much enterprise adoption yet? Have you tried to buy one in the past year? If you're not in the Fortune 100, fat effing chance! Here's how it goes, Samsung announces NVMe product, companies beat down their door screaming "take my money!" and Samsung conveniently "cancels" the product for sale. They made it. They just sold their entire production run to a handful of customers. Maybe, just maybe you can…

Prices seem to be pretty volatile, indicating some difficulty filling demand. But, you know, I'm not a fortune 100 company, and this seems to have a reasonable shipping time: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167...

That's a consumer model - and I'd guess the 2.5in versions are selling faster than the PCIe add-on cards.
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