The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution • Hacker News Board

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#121

Post by cca » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

The article's main concern is that "decline of religiosity has probably led to increased loneliness". The loneliness concern doesn't seem to resonate with the commenters here, so I dug in to the article's footnoted references.

The gist of the references is that loneliness is a problem for old adults, and religious community helps them. Intuitively, religious communities could probably help other groups at elevated risk of loneliness (the youth, the poorly educated, the depressed, etc.) even though I don't see studies showing that they do. The article's statement that "people are lonelier than ever before" is not supported by the references (except insofar as the population is aging, and the elderly are lonelier than the middle-aged). Footnote 11 suggests increasing social isolation across society but is, imo, not conclusive. Footnote 15 explicitly asks "Are we getting lonelier?" and finds the results inconclusive.

On the whole, it seems consistent to say "I'm not lonely right now, but I think that more diverse, intergenerational communities would be good for society."

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#122

Post by orionblastar » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 1:14 AM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #116

walshemj wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I recall a lot of these where set up for those who felt the Masons where it bit to secretive or a bit to Deist for some peoples tastes

Masons are the quintessential white boy money club. They have absolutely nothing to do with actual stone cutting, they have have an infatuation with having a long lived legacy, like the Pyramids.

Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. They claimed to have founded the USA on Masonic principles.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and...

The problem is organizations founded to oppose the Masons are religious just as well for the most part. The ones that are secular aren't that big and don't have the money and volunteers to help out.

Corporations have gotten secular like Microsoft and Google and Apple. They try to do things to give back to the community. But still some claim they are like the old railroad companies and in it for the money.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#123

Post by A_COMPUTER » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 1:28 AM UTC

NateEag wrote: post #107

The author observes that traditional religious organizations (a.k.a. "churches") have historically been the source of community in Western culture, then suggests that secular organizations could compete with them. I'm intrigued that he suggests secular communities should "put fellowship first" and "appeal to all kinds of people" in order to do so, when the traditional religious communities that he says succeed don't…

Some modern values, when applied universally, facilitate division. Churches reject these values and so have better natural survival rates. Those values are free inquiry and inclusion. In churches, there are large sets of beliefs that are axiomatic. If you don't believe them, you're not allowed in. If you openly question them, you are expelled.

You can arrange a secular org around any set of beliefs you want, but it's accepted what might serve the needs of the group could change, and at any rate you have a right to question it. Questioning is easier, and the inclusionary imperative is stronger.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#124

Post by 2anon4this1 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 1:41 AM UTC

Environmentalism is one belief which could power future communities.

It is something we can all agree is important, something families can get plenty of enjoyment out of, something we can get together on a Sunday morning to work towards, provides a place for music, discussion, a good place for group holiday getaways, a unanimously good cause which is becoming more and more important as world population increases and the environment comes under more and more threat.

It doesn't require any faith or belief in made up deities. It doesn't make false promises of a wonderful afterlife but instead focuses on preservation of the earth for your own ancestors - something which could be considered a more motivating goal than eternal afterlife.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#125

Post by cobber2005 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 2:02 AM UTC

I wish there was a community that use the Principia Cybernetica project (PCP) as it's core foundation:

"The PCP philosophy, which we call "Metasystem Transition Theory", is systemic and evolutionary, based on the spontaneous emergence of higher levels of organization or control (metasystem transitions) through blind variation and natural selection."

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/NUTSHELL.html

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#126

Post by virmundi » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 2:19 AM UTC

callmeed wrote: post #77

Animats wrote: post #25

The US used to have that. You can still see the remnants if you look. Rotary International, Kiwanis International, the Independent Order of Foresters, the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the Independent Order of Odd Fellows, the National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry - all those secular fraternal organizations still exist. The core of these organizations was small business owners, a group which once ran their…

My father-in-law is very involved with the local Rotary where we live. I've attended a few meetings and play in the annual golf tournament. I've recently thought that they need to adapt in order to attract younger people (I'm 40 and I feel young around them) or a new organization needs to start (see my other comment in this thread). What I like about the group is they build real, face-to-face relationships with one a…

Masons have the same problem with youth.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#127

Post by spacehome » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 2:36 AM UTC

jbarham wrote: post #109

Nursie wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Without that, well is that 'church' ?

> I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity? Yes: "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-…

I don't think it's very useful to quote the bible as a source of what Christians believe. So far as I can tell, only a tiny sliver of Christians believe the work in its entirety.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#128

Post by lovemenot » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 2:49 AM UTC

virmundi wrote: post #120

lovemenot wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may not be reading you correctly, but I understand you to be coming from a position of faith and happy therein (for now). If so, your standpoint makes sense to me. I imagine you may feel it would take a good deal of momentum to cross the boundary at the edge of your faith. A nihilist alternative may also act as a warning of the scary outside to those still on the inside. Nevertheless, it is not actually necessary t…

I am happy with my faith. I've gone through a crisis of it. I've come out much stronger on the other side. Specifically to the extreme, during that time I re-evaluated possible philosophic systems. I am an absolutist. I think there is Truth. Without a god, I needed to see if there was any system that provided a similar world view. Existential nihilism does. It says that the only fact we have is that nothing fundament…

>> If I were to throw away one system of belief with that behavior, why would I adopt another?

You seem comfortable with the arbitrariness of your faith now. So why not any other? A hypothetical true-believer in the Flying Spaghetti Monster would (by most reasonable criteria) be moving in the right direction if he/she were to become a Christian instead. Even though both faiths may be unanchored, there are wider considerations too.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#129

Post by orionblastar » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 2:53 AM UTC

As it stands to reason this would be a really good killer startup idea.

Make a non-profit startup that organizes secular communities via a website and an app. People can search for others in their area to join communities and help out or ask for help. To donate money or apply for grants to be helped. You can even have educational secular communities that teach programming and other IT skills.

Just search for people and communities nearby by zip code and all of that stuff.

Re: The World Needs a Secular Community Revolution

#130

Post by hellohiyeshello » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 3:10 AM UTC

The article mentions Sunday Assembly as an example of a British secular community. For those in the SF Bay Area who are curious, we have Sunday Assemblies in San Jose [0] and Oakland [1]. You can also search for an Assembly near you [2]. The one in San Jose has a morning service once per month, and meets socially and to volunteer much more often.

[0] http://sundayassemblysiliconvalley.org/ [1] https://eastbay.sundayassembly.com/ [2] https://sundayassembly.com/assemblies/