Facebook’s Piracy Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#121

Post by stevenh » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 12:43 AM UTC

mosquito242 wrote: post #3

This is super interesting - it seems like facebook's more likely to get away with it too because the people being ripped off are smaller independent YouTube Channels. It seems like YouTube's main incentive to build out copyright infringement tools was all of the record labels that had songs being uploaded and re-uploaded on the platform. I can see YouTube getting really aggressive in fighting FB on this legally, beca…

I wish Google would start fighting dirty.

Want to access Facebook mobile? Hope you have an iPhone, because Google pushed a mandatory update last night which banned Facebook from all Android devices.

Want to access Facebook through Chrome? Sorry, it seems that site has been flagged as a malicious piracy hub; however, you might enjoy this 302 redirect to an automatically-generated clone of your Facebook profile hosted on a safer alternative called Google Plus.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#122

Post by guscost » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 12:46 AM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #119

guscost wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll bite. As someone who could reasonably be called a creative person, I've happily shared work for free or cheap. This is great as you say, but all indications are that I'd have to work worse hours, live rougher, and probably risk burning out several more times to have any chance of supporting myself full-time doing this. So I work a day job doing, well, rather less exciting enterprise work, and I make a comfor…

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that anyone's creative work is 'crap' or that I'm in position to judge it. I was referring to the'art' created only for the large payoff, such as a lot of pop music. But even that's an unfair stereotype.

Well come on, I'm not even being sarcastic or anything, my cynicism about art in general and my own in particular is very real and kind of a problem. But I get what you mean, sorry for having a bit of fun at your expense.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#123

Post by nemothekid » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

hackuser wrote: post #52

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

I always wince when I see statements like these. The implication that artists should be unpaid is completely absurd.

How about, YOU, quick name a television/book/movie you enjoyed , where every artist went unpaid. There is a reason Netflix PAID people to create content. There is a reason that today YouTube still pays people to make content for YouTube. Quality content comes from smart people who if not paid to make media, will gladly take their talent somewhere else. In your "solution" the outcome isn't that Destin makes content for free, its that he continues his dayjob as a missile engineer and the world misses out on great content like Smarter Everyday. We get great content when artists don't have to starve to produce it. How about you work entirely for free in your day job (Hey the kernel your program for was built for free, why should you get paid before Linus?), and see how long you last.

We are already seeing the print industry go this way - with cheap, easily churnable content listicles and articles that may-or-may-not be written by PR firms at corporations. I don't know about you, but I vastly prefer the content on HBO than to cheap formulaic YouTube shorts and corporate pr films.

We should be thinking about how we funnel the billions of dollars of the media industry to the best content creators and out of the hands of RIAA execs, not wiping it all away because "lol artists who needs to pay them?"

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#124

Post by taejo » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 12:47 AM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #43

jboggan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Takedowns suck. Content creators don't want that and people driving traffic to their page don't want that. The crucial thing about YouTube and ContentID is that you can leave the videos alone but choose to monetize (take all ad revenue) from a re-uploaded video instead of just showing a black box and a takedown notice. It works and it is seamless on YouTube but I don't know if Facebook has built anything similar. Mor…

"Takedowns suck." No, stealing (yes, stealing) people's work sucks. Unjustified takedown requests do suck (and what makes them suck so much is platforms' craven response to frivolous requests). But we're talking about real, willful infringement here. "Content creators don't want that" You probably shouldn't try to speak for all of us, because you are wrong.

What does the content creator gain from the user seeing a black box? That's way worse than them seeing the content and the creator getting money for it, from both the user and the creator's perspective.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#125

Post by marincounty » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:03 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #109

johansch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like almost criminally incompetent by YT. They don't even look at upload timestamps in whatever automated or manual process they use for this?

You can't assume the videos are owned by someone just because they uploaded them first - many videos are ripped from other sources and uploaded first by unlicensed parties. They followed the same procedures as described in the DMCA (even if this probably wasn't an official takedown request): if someone claims they represent the copyright holder and the videos are infringing, the service provider must take them down e…

I haven't seen YouTube care about customer's concern after the acquisition by Google? That is unless the video gets a lot of attention, or you are someone other than me?

I have videos up I literally can't get off. Their was a password clitch in their software when Google bought YouTube. I tried to get to my account, and got tired of hearing, "Go to the help boards sir-". I got to the point where it just wasen't worth the frustration. Too bad--at one time I really liked YouTube! Now--I only go there when absolutely necessary; Then I turn down the sound--try to guess when the skip advertisement pops up, watch, and gone for months.

(I have used YouTube from pretty much day one. I put up self help stuff for Contractors --A lot of This is How you put in a Hydronic Heating System. They were terrible, but I always had the option to remove/replace? I can now only get to them as a commenter. In one video, my dog died the previous week, and you could tell in my voice I wasen't doing well. Even one commenter suggested I should redo the video. I explained to him in the comment section I can't even get to the video.)

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#126

Post by stevenh » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:04 AM UTC

Facebook not only added native video support, but their news feed algorithm blocks YouTube links in favor of native videos all of the time. They created the freebooting problem themselves on purpose to keep people (and ad revenue) locked into their own site.

As far as piracy is concerned, I fail to see how Facebook is any better than MegaUpload. You might even say it's 1000 times worse, considering its alexa ranking is 1000 times better than MegaUpload's ever was.

Why hasn't Zuckerberg's house been raided yet, and all Facebook servers confiscated?

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#127

Post by forrestthewoods » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:06 AM UTC

ljk wrote: post #45

willlma wrote: post #14

Ironically, at the end of the tattoo video that was pirated, Destin Sandlin, the host, is seen wearing [a shirt]( http://www.amazon.com/Stand-Going-Science-T-Shirt-Scientists... ) that is a blatant rip off of an Randall Munroe's (XKCD) [shirt]( http://store-xkcd-com.myshopify.com/products/try-science ).

That always made me wonder, the people who sell shirts with logos/pop references shirts in mall booths, do they pay the artist a license fee to sell them?

They do if the copyright owner comes knocking. http://kotaku.com/the-maker-of-the-trollface-meme-is-countin...

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#128

Post by PlE » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:07 AM UTC

WWKong wrote: post #99

hackuser wrote: post #52

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

"Yes, motivating creators is a problem, but there are many possible solutions." Could you outline couple of them? Let's say I want to publish an ebook. What model would ensure that I can pay my rent (similar levels of revenue to current model like Amazon Kindle publishing) while allowing free sharing of my content?

Upsell your readers into paid consulting packages, put on live conferences, and make a private mastermind group?

Certainly the more value you deliver to your readers, the more they'll pay you.

The book can even be the loss leader.

In highly competitive niches like weight loss, this is already the norm.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#129

Post by viraptor » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:17 AM UTC

plorg wrote: post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

I'd like to hear more of this story and what channels of communication were used exactly. DMCA is pretty clear on how this case should be handled and even if it's a stupid procedure that takes you down for a few days, I don't believe YT can legally refuse to act on the counter-claim. If they do and you relied on the income from those videos, you could sue them.

So why did it take months? How were they blocked in the first place? (DMCA?) Was there an official counter-claim? Refused? Why?

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#130

Post by marcosdumay » Thu, Jul 09, 2015, 1:17 AM UTC

plorg wrote: post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

Sounds like something you solve with the help of a lawyer.

I mean, Youtube was serving pirated versions of his videos, refusing to block them, and refusing to attribute credit to him. Youtube was also gaining money from the operation.