Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#121

Post by samatman » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:53 PM UTC

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy.

Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated.

Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question being resolved. I know several triples living quietly among us; they face the same kind of problems (child custody, hospital visitation, inheritance rights) as same-sex couples faced prior to this decision.

What the polygamists of the nation lack is a powerful lobby. One may hope that nonetheless, reason and freedom will prevail here as well.

EDIT: nation, not world. Worldwide the situation is different. America is suffering from its Christian legacy here. Most Christian countries are adamant about denying this right to their citizens.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#122

Post by itsnotlupus » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:53 PM UTC

enlightenedfool wrote: post #79

plg wrote: post #45

Can we finally stop calling it "gay marriage" and "traditional marriage" and just call it "marriage" now? good job USA I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world.

Yeah, you should start leading again by cross-species marriage too. It may sound bizarre now but that's how same sex marriage was a 100 years back. Marrying your pets should be legal too.

Marriage between two consenting adults is not a slippery slope to bestiality.

I'm not sure why this keeps coming up in some circles. Is it maybe due to some difficulty accepting that gays are people too?

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#123

Post by hackuser » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:53 PM UTC

ionforce wrote: post #56

agd wrote: post #4

Great decision. It's amazing how quickly gay rights have advanced in the western world. Unfortunately it's still legal in many states to discriminate against employees on the basis of sexual orientation. Hopefully that's next to be fixed.

I blame Glee. I say that a bit tongue-in-cheek but it definitely helps to have gay culture and gay icons just out there in the world, melded seamlessly with the rest of society. This includes things like trashy teen comedies and musicals and what not. Having equal marriage rights is just one more step in the right direction of having a more tolerant, loving earth society.

> it definitely helps to have gay culture and gay icons just out there in the world, melded seamlessly with the rest of society.

On one hand I agree, but it's never been sufficient. There have been gay icons for a long time (probably forever); Oscar Wilde springs to mind, and Alan Turing (though I don't know if he was well-known to the public). And even with their status, they were still persecuted and ruined.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#124

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

taytus wrote: post #61

baakss wrote: post #30

In my lifetime, I think this is the social issue that has seen the most positive change. As a kid, gay people were practically lepers. Eleven Years ago, Dave Chappelle just outright said "gay sex is just gross, sorry it just is", and it was considered funny and acceptable. (Not harping on him specifically, just pointing out what it was like in 2004) Seven years ago prop 8 passed, if barely with some caveats about lac…

Dave Chappelle is a comedian, they say stuff like that all the time, it's part of their job. If you are going to quote somebody (specially on these issues), I'd recommend not to quote a comedian.

[deleted]

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#125

Post by malkia » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #92

plg wrote: post #45

Can we finally stop calling it "gay marriage" and "traditional marriage" and just call it "marriage" now? good job USA I'm glad you are finally catching up to the rest of the developed world.

True. We don't say "gay passport" or "black diploma" or "woman's fishing license".

And yet the news reports I've heard on the shooting in Charleston kept mentioning "9 African Americans". No one calls the "white" folks (that would probably be me) "European Americans" or "Caucasian Americans" in the reports.

It's just silly.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#126

Post by braythwayt » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

  > Lawyers for the four states said their bans were justified by
  > tradition and the distinctive characteristics of opposite-sex
  > unions.

Reads like they dusted off the old arguments in favour of slavery and/or segregation and remixed the recipe for marriage.

Take a dollop of “tradition says it should be so,” and sprinkle on “distinctive characteristics” to taste.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#127

Post by hackuser » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:54 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #114

hackuser wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> opinion also reasserted that people who are really mad about this can continue to be mad and vocal about it, as guaranteed by the First Amendment Was this a question? I don't think I've heard anyone ever say otherwise. I'll add though, that people long have cloaked oppression in religion. People justified (and still justify) slavery, segregation, and oppression of women under the guise of religion, for example. Som…

There are quite a lot of people who argued that changing the definition of marriage was an infringement of their religious rights. I've never been clear on how that was supposed to happen but maybe you can dig it out of the oral arguments.

But did anyone argue that they couldn't express their views?

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#128

Post by balls187 » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

aedocw wrote: post #98

taytus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dave Chappelle is a comedian, they say stuff like that all the time, it's part of their job. If you are going to quote somebody (specially on these issues), I'd recommend not to quote a comedian.

Quoting a comedian as a means of reflecting what's popular or at least socially acceptable is an appropriate and accurate way to say "at one point in recent history, it was socially acceptable to say demeaning things about gay people." Michael Richards is a comedian, and made anti-Semitic remarks that resulted in a significant backlash. Again, looking back this is a good indication of someone saying something that wa…

OT: It wasn't anti Semitic remarks that got Michael Richards in trouble. Michael Richards went on a massive tirade saying the N-word repeatedly after he felt that a black patron was being disrespectful.

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#129

Post by koverstreet » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #121

While this is excellent news for my gay and lesbian friends, I see no progress on polygamy. Which, unlike same-sex marriage, is an institution with deep roots both in America (the Mormons were forced to give up this sacrament as a condition of statehood) and in the majority of world cultures, where it ranges from condoned to celebrated. Without getting unduly personal, let's say that I have a stake in that question b…

One step at a time. It'll happen...

Re: Same-Sex Marriage Is a Right, Supreme Court Rules

#130

Post by rfrey » Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 2:55 PM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #118

rfrey wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect Scalia as a scholar and philosopher. But I couldn't find anything in his dissent that couldn't equally apply to desegregation.

Scalia is like reading The Spectator. Well-argued, cogent, urbane, but wrong.

I think he's often right. But unlike tptacek, I just can't muster any admiration for this dissent. It seemed so petulant, and more grounded in sophistry than law.