Apple OS X El Capitan • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#121

Post by bsimpson » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 12:34 AM UTC

sirn wrote: post #85

Since no one already mentioned about it, here's an update to WebKit in Safari 9.0[1]. Just to pick a few: * Force Touch Trackpad Mouse Events * Content Blocking Safari Extensions (bytecode-compiled content blocklist for both iOS and OSX) * SFSafariViewController for iOS (as an alternative to UIWebKit and WKWebKit) * ECMAScript 6 support * CSS properties are now unprefixed (including flexbox!) I'm excited about the co…

Looks like some of the most useful ES6 features (such as lambda arrows and rest/spread/destructuring) are still not supported, so Babel isn't going away any time soon.

Also interesting to see that they redesigned Dev Tools again. I'm guessing enough people found the new ones so much harder to use than the original (that Chrome is still iterating on) that they felt the need to make it look more like what people were used to.

Finally, it looks like they're introducing a filter variant called backdrop-filters. It's in the Apple-edited CSS Filters spec, but I don't see any noise about it from the Chrome or Firefox evangelism teams. I wonder if it will be Apple-proprietary, or if other vendors are interested in it:

https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=497522

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#122

Post by justsid » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 12:36 AM UTC

Artemis2 wrote: post #100

coldtea wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?

For a computer that costs thousands of dollars. Is that too much to ask that Apple make proper drivers for the one new model of discrete graphics cards they ship every year?

I’ve talked about this with one of the guys at Apple who writes graphics drivers. Basically vendors give them their Windows drivers and they change them to work against IOKit. No idea what my point is, besides, “it’s probably not that easy”. But they are on the Vulkan team and probably now have experience providing a similar API, so I’m hopeful the Macs get great adoption for Vulkan.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#123

Post by s73v3r » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 12:43 AM UTC

phn wrote: post #42

pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As anyone in the industry knows, either you make a game engine or a game.

There are plenty of successful studios that have their own in-house engines. Naughty Dog, From Software, ex Kojima Productions... Besides, for simple games, using those engines are a huge overhead and an unnecessary cost. I understand what you're saying, but I don't like how you make it sound a simple, already-made-for-you decision, when reality is much more nuanced. Each case is a case, and no one should turn down t…

"Besides, for simple games, using those engines are a huge overhead and an unnecessary cost."

For simple games, you're probably not going to be reaching down to the Metal layer anyway. You're probably gonna stay up at the CoreGraphics layer, use SpriteKit/SceneKit, or something like Cocos or something similar.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#124

Post by kawera » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 1:31 AM UTC

newman314 wrote: post #76

I didn't see a list of supported hardware. Anyone know if a mid-2009 Macbook will be supported? Also, I'm really hoping Apple supports ed25519 in ssh in 10.11... No reason why this is not available at this point.

Here is the list for the preview:

https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/releaseno...

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#125

Post by jordanthoms » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 2:34 AM UTC

It is amusing how they are touting 'faster app switching' for the new release, when it was instant a few versions ago and has got steadily slower over the last few OSX releases (even on the latest hardware). It's good they are finally addressing some of the performance issues, but it's a bit embarrassing that things got to this point.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#126

Post by r618 » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 2:52 AM UTC

Dain42 wrote: post #66

zamalek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it originates from misunderstanding what a walled garden is and why they are great for customer retention. The whole point of walled garden is locking people in. Avoiding a walled garden can only happen before you invest in the garden. Once you have spent money in iTunes or the store (or e.g. even have a long list of contacts in some IM client) you are stuck unless you are happy to lose those purchases/data.

I had this experience leaving the Apple walled garden about six years ago and moving on to Ubuntu (with Windows for gaming purposes in free time). I just kind of ate the costs. I suppose technically I still have access to my video content purchased on iTunes, but I'd have to boot to Windows or use a VM to get to it. My rationale was kind of along the lines of avoiding the sunk cost fallacy: just because I'd been inve…

are you saying that music you bought on iTunes Store ( and could play in iTunes ) was DRM, but the very same music from the iTunes Store accessed via iTunes Match was not ? -- that seems unlikely to me ( although probably not impossible, just very unlikely )

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#127

Post by jgh » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 3:00 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #93

izacus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I already do own a Mac and I actually like using it. Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed and complain about having 3D performance crippled on the OS X as opposed to Windows? Are you telling me I'm not allowed to be annoyed about having to reboot my machine constantly to get the most of 3D performance? To borrow your words - I don't get why are you criticising me when I express opinion about a one a…

3D performance for what? Are you a gamer?

OSX renders UI with OpenGL - and now in El Capitan it will render using Metal. The performance overhead affects more than just games.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#128

Post by epsylon » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 4:24 AM UTC

phn wrote: post #42

pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As anyone in the industry knows, either you make a game engine or a game.

There are plenty of successful studios that have their own in-house engines. Naughty Dog, From Software, ex Kojima Productions... Besides, for simple games, using those engines are a huge overhead and an unnecessary cost. I understand what you're saying, but I don't like how you make it sound a simple, already-made-for-you decision, when reality is much more nuanced. Each case is a case, and no one should turn down t…

> There are plenty of successful studios that have their own in-house engines.

None of which develop for Mac.

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#129

Post by epsylon » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 4:31 AM UTC

leoc wrote: post #69

cwyers wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's going to be a major game developer that supports OpenGL/Vulkan on Windows over DirectX, outside of perhaps Bethesda/iD. If Vulkan isn't present on the second-most used desktop OS, and it's not best-of-breed on the operating system used on over 90% of desktops, I don't see where it makes major inroads on the desktop.

Valve is certainly interested in Vulkan, partly as a means to target Chinese Dota players running Windows XP. Even a second-place position on PC may amount to more than star status on OS X. (Though OTOH the relatively easy port could draw people looking for some extra income for their iOS game.) (In any case, is it yet certain that Apple won't support Vulkan on OS X? It wouldn't have been ready for El Capitan's launc…

> Valve is certainly interested in Vulkan, partly as a means to target Chinese Dota players running Windows XP.

That seems like a far fetched theory to me. AMD and NVIDIA haven't released drivers for XP for ages. Vulkan support in Source Engine is nowhere near done, if it has even started. In the meantime Chinese players will move on...

Re: Apple OS X El Capitan

#130

Post by akulbe » Tue, Jun 09, 2015, 5:01 AM UTC

Spiritus wrote: post #71

Anyone know what Python version comes bundled with El Capitan? I assume it's still 2.7.x, but one can always dream they have moved to Python 3 :)

Apple's core stuff is generally several minor versions behind:

aaron@longview bin % ./python -V Python 2.7.6 aaron@longview bin % pwd /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin

aaron@longview bin % ./ruby -v ruby 2.0.0p481 (2014-05-08 revision 45883) [universal.x86_64-darwin14] aaron@longview bin % pwd /System/Library/Frameworks/Ruby.framework/Versions/Current/usr/bin

I know you're asking about Python, but with Mavericks, it had Ruby 1.8, so I thought it'd make a good point that they keep older stuff for a long time. (That's why I included it.)