Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities • Hacker News Board

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#121

Post by everyOtherTime » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

pyrophane wrote: post #112

everyOtherTime wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...so, like, were you the kid in class who always reminded the teachers when they forgot to assign homework? After all, what this is really all about, is an attack aimed to reduce all the funds that those delicious, orange parking tickets generate. All the petty nuisance tickets, and summonses, and violations that harvest money from non-violent citizens, rather than produce burdens by incurring imprisonment costs. Yo…

While a lot of New Yorkers appreciate the reprieve from things like parking tickets, the lack of enforcement has real consequences that will negatively effect quality of life here. For example, without enforcement of the alternate side parking rule, street cleaners won't be able to access many city streets to clean them.

It has not been demonstrated that there is a lack of enforcement for serious criminal activity.

What has been broadly noted is that violations that generate money are not being enforced.

That part about "generating money" is the crux of the strategy we're seeing.

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#122

Post by BashiBazouk » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:48 PM UTC

lmg643 wrote: post #85

kailuowang wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a couple of decades ago, Manhattan has many shitty areas before the ramp up the police force. The real effect of this "protest" won't really show that quickly. Stopping hassling the "usual" targets may not be the only thing they do. I don't think we should just sit back and let the situation fold out on its own. Whatever the intention is, if the police force is putting public safety in risk, it's critical to not…

I agree. This article from the NYT seems very premature. I think this is part of the current media backlash which is trying to shame the cops for pointing the finger at DeBlasio. "See! You end stop and frisk and crime didn't go up. It is wrong to demonize the administration." Reducing patrols and arrests isn't going to spike crime immediately, but if this condition persists for another three months, we might be able…

It will be interesting to see how this balances out. Fewer arrests, fewer court cases and fewer people sent to jail. All of which, especially the jail, are expensive...

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#123

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:51 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #75

everyOtherTime wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...so, like, were you the kid in class who always reminded the teachers when they forgot to assign homework? After all, what this is really all about, is an attack aimed to reduce all the funds that those delicious, orange parking tickets generate. All the petty nuisance tickets, and summonses, and violations that harvest money from non-violent citizens, rather than produce burdens by incurring imprisonment costs. Yo…

Hi, I see you're new here, so you might not know yet, but ad hominem attacks like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News.

[deleted]

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#124

Post by everyOtherTime » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #110

korzun wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hi, I see you're new here Hey, ad hominems like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News :)

That wasn't an ad hominem attack, but an ad hominem greeting.

> assuming I'm new here.

Hi, I see that you have more than 500 karma, so you probably downvoted me. That's great, because I created this throw-away account specifically because of thin-skinned people like you. Did that last sentence also come across as an ad hominem attack?

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#125

Post by fennecfoxen » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #31

Let me add this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/the-bene... >>But the police union's phrasing—officers shouldn't make arrests "unless absolutely necessary"—begs the question: How many unnecessary arrests was the NYPD making before now?

I suspect think there can in fact be desirable arrests which are not necessary: arrests for petty theft and shoplifting, vandalism, malicious mischief, et cetera.

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#126

Post by lotsofmangos » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #31

Let me add this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/the-bene... >>But the police union's phrasing—officers shouldn't make arrests "unless absolutely necessary"—begs the question: How many unnecessary arrests was the NYPD making before now?

As many as the quota required.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/21/second_cop_confirms_nypd_arr...

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#127

Post by mhurron » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #84

ams6110 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suspecting that it will eventually prove that those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. NYC in the '70s and '80s was not that safe. Street crime, muggings, etc. were common. In the 1990s Giuliani stepped up patrols and sarted enforcing what most people thought were petty crimes, such as loitering, graffiti, parking violations, subway-gate-jumping, etc. with the effect that more serious crimes als…

I don't know why people down voted this to death. Whether true or not (no one knows for sure), it's a view held by many. If the enforcement is down 90%, there will always be some consequences / impacts down the road. It will not be immediate because it takes some time for criminals to test the new boundaries of what they can get away with. And for those who think this will hurt the police budget, ticket revenue only…

> It will not lead to layoff.

It will if they think they can blame it on the Mayor. NYPD appears to be throwing a temper-tantrum, I wouldn't exactly expect nothing but rational actions from them.

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#128

Post by saraid216 » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 5:59 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #100

uiberto wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no legal training, but doesn't the ruling say police officers still have a duty to the public, just not to the individual?

I am not a lawyer, so forgive me for trying to apply logic to the law. What set cardinality would be minimally necessary to generate a police duty to protect a group, if it is not one? "The public" is, after all, nothing more than a set of individuals. Two? Three? Ten? A million? Are police subject to some selfish calculus where they are not obligated to risk their own lives unless it would save more than N non-polic…

> I am not a lawyer, so forgive me for trying to apply logic to the law.

Your first mistake is presuming that you're applying logic. That's not what you're doing.

Your second mistake is presuming that you're commenting on the law. You're commenting on an interpretation of the law. With, I might add, your own interpretation based explicitly on admitted ignorance.

> What set cardinality would be minimally necessary to generate a police duty to protect a group, if it is not one?

It is one. It's simply not specific as to which one. If two criminals threatened two different civilians, a policeman is not at fault for choosing to save only one of them, especially when failing to act would mean saving neither.

A policeman who patrols one neighborhood over another, ceteris paribus, is not liable for crimes that occur in neighborhoods he failed to patrol. If it can be shown that he has done so for discriminatory reasons, then he is at fault for discrimination, but not for the crimes which occurred.

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#129

Post by shit_parade » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 6:00 PM UTC

korzun wrote: post #105

discardorama wrote: post #81

All this back-turning, slowdown, etc. have more to do with the NYPD contract renewal coming up. I hate to say this, but it looks to me that the unions are politicizing the death of the two officers to gain leverage in the contract negotiations.

The slain officer lived in my neighborhood. Every single officer I know was impacted by this. They have 24/hour shifts guarding their house on their own time and thousands of officers showed up to his funeral. You sound extremely ignorant.

Funny how officers deem their lives worth more than the lives they take or families they destroy with no accountability.

Re: Life in New York City, Where Arrests Are Down and Tickets Are Rarities

#130

Post by criley2 » Wed, Jan 07, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

raldi wrote: post #110

korzun wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hi, I see you're new here Hey, ad hominems like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News :)

That wasn't an ad hominem attack, but an ad hominem greeting.

@everyothertime It's not about thin skin, it's about obeying the culture of the community you've involved yourself with.

Please don't complain when you violate the culture of this community and are reprimanded for doing so.

If you want a less respectful culture where attacking one another with immature statements is the norm, perhaps check raldi's previous home, reddit. Judging by your use of the unsupported reddit quote syntax and the pettiness of your replies, it seems you are already familiar with that place and its culture.