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A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

developers.kongregate.com

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Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#121

Post by ANTSANTS »

meowface wrote: post #109
ncallaway wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started seeing the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" used a lot as soon as #Gamergate happened. I have yet to see it well defined, though. I realize it's tangential to your point, but I'm curious how would you define or describe a SJW?

Traditionally, the term has been used to describe people who make comments like http://i.imgur.com/QMbGVLG.png or http://i.imgur.com/vJgiov8.jpg or http://i.imgur.com/fMcjKsg.png . Essentially, radical social justice viewpoints taken to absurd extremes. Sometimes to the point of expressing highly racist, homophobic, or transphobic views in the course of supporting some other group they feel is even more persecuted th…

More examples of the first group, because we could all use a laugh:

http://a.pomf.se/vrwobd.png

http://a.pomf.se/mdiqol.jpg

http://a.pomf.se/jdwkkw.png

http://a.pomf.se/brsunc.png

http://a.pomf.se/wcjfcv.jpg

Some examples of the second group might include the people who flagkilled half of my comments in this thread. Man, I know political threads on Reddit News are a steaming pile, but y'all could at least pretend to be capable of talking to people you don't agree with and downvote me into oblivion instead.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#122

Post by dang »

crassus2 wrote: post #120
JulianMorrison wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One every 50 days is 1) The absolute, lowest, background radiation level, of men hassling women. 2) Even despite that, demonstrably worse that what men get. This is not the norm. This is what's still left when the volume of a woman's public presence is dialled down to infinitesimal above zero. Normal is way worse.

I just want to say that I'm deeply uncomfortable with how quickly hacker news mods have moved to kill comments they disagree with since the new "professional" management came in. Is yummyfajitas hell-banned now? He had nearly 7 years of history. All his comments here are dead-ed. For the record, this is what the grandparent said that got him hell-banned: "According to the article, the author received one unwanted mes…

We haven't done any of those things. No moderator touched any of those comments, let alone killed them. Also, "professional" management? Ugh.

It's difficult for me take your "deeply uncomfortable" seriously when you haven't taken any trouble to find out whether what you're saying is true. It's not like it's hard.

Edit: Also, it's disingenuous to quote that out of context to make it seem like comparing sexual harrassment to recruiter spam is completely innocuous, when everybody, including the person making that comparison, knows damn well how provocative it is.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#123

Post by slash3r »

rtpg wrote: post #88
gohrt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that confuses me (as a non-"Gamer" netizen) is that I am constantly bombarded with the "meta' arguing and hand-wringing about "GamerGate" on HN etc, but have yet to see anything actually from the core activity of the "movement" or whatever.

Intel pulled advertising from Gamasutra under pressure from these people, some women independent game developers have "ragequit"(read: harassed beyond belief so did the only logical thing) from twitter and the like. It's violent if you follow the independent games scene These are also the same group of people who forced Phil Fish off the internet, basically.

You seem to believe that Intel can be intimidated by internet trolls. It also seems that you don't know nothing about Phil Fish and that almost (if not all) the awards that Fez won were from the investors of Fez themselves. [don't get me wrong, I actually loved Fez] (let the downvotes pour)

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#124

Post by [deleted] »

rtpg wrote: post #112
ObviousScience wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's exactly to the point: the question is if we have a fundamentally more sexist male population online than female population, or if we're seeing confounding variables introducing an apparently difference. I mean, there's clearly a problem with the experience women have with many online communities - just ask them, they're not shy about admitting it. The hard questions are why is their experience like that…

There is no discussion about the difference between male aggressors and female aggressors (though the examples were all male I imagine). The question is about aggressors in the gaming community as a whole,e ven if this is "just" a consequence of there being more men than women in the community, it's still an issue . The question in the test was "is it easier to be a man or a women in the gaming community?", not "why"…

[deleted]

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#125

Post by crassus2 »

dang wrote: post #122
crassus2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to say that I'm deeply uncomfortable with how quickly hacker news mods have moved to kill comments they disagree with since the new "professional" management came in. Is yummyfajitas hell-banned now? He had nearly 7 years of history. All his comments here are dead-ed. For the record, this is what the grandparent said that got him hell-banned: "According to the article, the author received one unwanted mes…

We haven't done any of those things. No moderator touched any of those comments, let alone killed them. Also, "professional" management? Ugh. It's difficult for me take your "deeply uncomfortable" seriously when you haven't taken any trouble to find out whether what you're saying is true. It's not like it's hard. Edit: Also, it's disingenuous to quote that out of context to make it seem like comparing sexual harrassm…

I disagree with the tone with which yummyfajitas is discussing this, but I absolutely think he should have the right to voice his opinion. Aren't downvotes punishment enough? I wonder if he had been more cautious in his phrasing if his comments would still be dead-ed for picking the "wrong" side of an issue.

I see the direction that hacker news is going. Whether by mod or by algorithm, it ain't pretty.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#126

Post by rtpg »

slash3r wrote: post #123
rtpg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel pulled advertising from Gamasutra under pressure from these people, some women independent game developers have "ragequit"(read: harassed beyond belief so did the only logical thing) from twitter and the like. It's violent if you follow the independent games scene These are also the same group of people who forced Phil Fish off the internet, basically.

You seem to believe that Intel can be intimidated by internet trolls. It also seems that you don't know nothing about Phil Fish and that almost (if not all) the awards that Fez won were from the investors of Fez themselves. [don't get me wrong, I actually loved Fez] (let the downvotes pour)

Intel did drop their ads http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/2/6886747/intel-buckles-to-a...

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#127

Post by slash3r »

How is this HN front page worthy? It's just a case study on only two people that ends up making a generalization about countless others. I could make a pro gamer gate statement for all I care, it would still be irrelevant.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#128

Post by dang »

crassus2 wrote: post #125
dang wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We haven't done any of those things. No moderator touched any of those comments, let alone killed them. Also, "professional" management? Ugh. It's difficult for me take your "deeply uncomfortable" seriously when you haven't taken any trouble to find out whether what you're saying is true. It's not like it's hard. Edit: Also, it's disingenuous to quote that out of context to make it seem like comparing sexual harrassm…

I disagree with the tone with which yummyfajitas is discussing this, but I absolutely think he should have the right to voice his opinion. Aren't downvotes punishment enough? I wonder if he had been more cautious in his phrasing if his comments would still be dead-ed for picking the "wrong" side of an issue. I see the direction that hacker news is going. Whether by mod or by algorithm, it ain't pretty.

You've created a long series of accounts to do serial ideological trolling on Hacker News over the years [1], that in turn have gotten serially banned for a long time. There's no change in policy or direction here—nor in your practice of keeping your main account studiously separate from the ones with which you stir up shit. That is not using this site in good faith. None of this is the least bit new—you're simply relying on the fact that the fair-minded users of Hacker News don't have access to all the data.

In the latest episode—this one—we learn that you're adding concern trolling to your repertoire. Your mention in another context of how this terribly-concerning "new direction" that HN is taking would never have happened under the author of "What You Can't Say" is especially rich, given that PG would have (and, as I recall, did) ban your ass hands down the fastest of any of us. It's I who have consistently been the moderator most hesitant to do that (Exhibit A, the present discussion), oh and I've been doing this job for years already, so maybe find something else to "concern" about?

You really got me with the "professional management" though.

1. Anyone with showdead turned on who'd like a glimpse of what I mean by "serial ideological trolling" is invited to peruse this eugenicist tidbit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7447575. There's a lot more where that came from.

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#129

Post by slash3r »

rtpg wrote: post #88
gohrt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that confuses me (as a non-"Gamer" netizen) is that I am constantly bombarded with the "meta' arguing and hand-wringing about "GamerGate" on HN etc, but have yet to see anything actually from the core activity of the "movement" or whatever.

Intel pulled advertising from Gamasutra under pressure from these people, some women independent game developers have "ragequit"(read: harassed beyond belief so did the only logical thing) from twitter and the like. It's violent if you follow the independent games scene These are also the same group of people who forced Phil Fish off the internet, basically.

I'll reply here because apparently I can't reply to your response. "Because everything that is written on the internet is true". Let's think a little: Intel pulled their ads because they got intimidated by a handful of trolls, yet they didn't returned after it was shown to them that they are supporting misogynists by pulling the ads. Explain to me how a few trolls are more powerful than the media?

Re: A Natural A/B Test of Harassment

#130

Post by ANTSANTS »

paulnechifor wrote: post #55

I thought better of HN before this. It looks like if you don't toe the line you get downvoted and your comments get [killed].

I feel the same. I don't think I want to post here anymore. I mean, I should have known that it's not worth discussing politics on HN, but there's something really demoralizing about putting sincere and civil comments together just to have them deleted, all because a few people took their disagreement personally.

When I'm trying to keep it civil here and upvoting people I don't agree with when they make good points, and I get silenced in return, all it does is polarize me further. gg folks, have fun thinking I'm evil/brainwashed/sexist in your echo chamber.

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