Live data from Hacker News

A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

newyorker.com

121–130 of 183 posts

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#121
post #22

The only thing I can't get over is how work focused all of the letters are. Sure, they all have family struggles, but they're less concerned about the particular struggles and more concerned about how that impacts their work. This article is phrased as if the entire Japanese culture is based on a disproportionate work-life balance to the extreme.

Are things any different anywhere else? Our hunting-gathering days are over. We used to chop down wood for the fire; now, we go to work, and push a button on the wall to stay warm. To work is to live in modern society.

Yes, things are different elsewhere.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#123
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a psychologist, so I won't comment on the _why_, but veterans have an extremely high suicide rate. http://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2427 (the PDF link has the data) > Of the 147,763 suicides reported in 21 states, 27,062 (18.3%) > were identified as having history of U.S. military service > on death certificates This article has some discussion on how this data is hard to collect: http://www…

Many sources of depression stem from feeling trapped with no way out, or to be controlled in such a way that's counter to their sense of self (they feel out of control and unable to influence their own destiny, leaving an unfillable void at the center of their emotions) -- suicide often becomes a way for the individual to assert their self and grant themselves agency in these circumstances. I've had combat explained…

I'm dubious. A soldier in a war zone spends 98% or more of his time exclusively in the company of his fellow soldiers, whom he most certainly cannot kill or assault without facing extremely dire punishment. Even when he is in combat, he is only there under very strict orders and does not have very much freedom to do anything other than follow them.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#124
post #104

By tradition, suicide can absolve guilt and cancel debt, can restore honor and prove loyalty. In this respect I feel Japan's culture is superior to ours in the USA. For example, I felt Mark Madoff's suicide was entirely appropriate, a final act that put the rest of his life in a more dignified context. Yet every article one reads about it treats the suicide as an additional disgrace, yet another horrible thing we can…

You are getting down voted but honorable suicide was a practice in more than ancient Japan. Socrates died by his own hand for instance. https://suite.io/arash-farzaneh/4sa32c7 I'm not saying suicide is good thing but there is a cultural perspective that is different from our own in the modern West.

Socrates was sentenced to death and chose to accept the judgment of the law and drink the poison himself rather than escape (or, I guess, force an executioner to become more directly involved). That hardly counts as suicide.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mockery around after-life scenarios like we'd know something for certain. There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that mocking precautions about after-life is incredibly foolish.

There are at least two religions for which belief in one constitutes damnation in the other. At least one of them has to be wrong. Of course, to any person, his religion can't be wrong. (If it can, then it is at least in some sense not "his religion.") So to every strong believer, someone else's afterlife precautions are either superfluous or futile. Of course, that doesn't mean the question should be taken lightly,…

Humans have many beliefs. Facts are not beliefs. Beliefs are not facts. The nature of life after death, if there is one, is a fact. Our multitude of beliefs about it do not change there being or not life our death, just as our very existence is not a matter of belief. We are or we're not. Just because we have epistemic limitations, that doesn't mean that the ontology of life, before and after death, is influenced by that, or is an illusion.

I hope you'd agree with me when I say that love is more natural to human beings than fear. That peace is more desirable than troubling. I believe that no matter what religion or belief system one's in at the time, for whatever reasons, seeking love and peace and cultivating them among people around, will set them on the right path. Anything else is like me, a simple worker, saying to another one that he'll be fired because he done whatever. It's not my decision, although I can have that belief. Or delusion.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#126
post #120
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you think about it, once you accept that an afterlife is something worth worrying about, you're left with hundreds if not thousands of unfalsifiable, contradictory (and even antagonistic) folk tales and the task of choosing one and hoping you're right -- although for most people, this question is answered for them by the circumstances of their birth, and it seems normal, even obvious. So really, simply choosing…

Yeah, but how many folk tales do you know of have our calendar measured after the life of one man? 2014 AD or more fully "Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi". How many of those tales give you a single point of failure, that if you can explain away one point then internally the whole belief system collapses? ( http://bit.ly/1uNpRwT with a modern explanation at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus ) Se…

You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But you cannot assert that your belief system is unique because of proof that depends on that same belief.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#127

I used to live near the Tojimbo cliffs and have been thinking about the place (and what happens there) on and off since my first visit. I also really liked this NYT article, about a retired cop who made it his mission to stop suicide attempts at the cliffs. 222 lives had been saved as of late 2009. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/18/world/asia/18japan.html?_r...

Another extraordinary story about a Suicide Catcher, this time in China.

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201005/suicide-ca...

"Mr. Chen would charge them like a dangerous man himself, wrestling, punching, kicking, doing whatever was necessary. 'I'm very confident in my physical strength,' he said. 'Since I have no psychological training, my job is to get that person off the bridge as quickly as possible.'"

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#128
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world is full of mockers and fools. And 84% of the population on this planet is religious... Quips aside, I regret nearly every thing I did that derived from the fanatical faith I held for my first quarter century, apart from finding my wife. I missed out on so much of life because of my devotion, and if I'm a mocker or a fool now, it's only because I have so few minutes in this place and regret having wasted s…

Sounds like you and I have had different faith experiences. I didn't grow up with it as a kid, so all of what I know I've had to discover as an adult. As far as mockers and fools, you only have to look as far as the comment section of YouTube to find a whole plethora of them. If the Internet had been around when I was growing up, I would have been right there among them.

I grew up with it as a child but I went back and forth with it when I decided to stop caring too much over it and accept it as something that is good, in itself.

The problems with people are always going to be more fundamental than what religion they attach themselves to. This has always been my experience, and it seems consistent all the time.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#129
post #22

The only thing I can't get over is how work focused all of the letters are. Sure, they all have family struggles, but they're less concerned about the particular struggles and more concerned about how that impacts their work. This article is phrased as if the entire Japanese culture is based on a disproportionate work-life balance to the extreme.

Are things any different anywhere else? Our hunting-gathering days are over. We used to chop down wood for the fire; now, we go to work, and push a button on the wall to stay warm. To work is to live in modern society.

I'm living in Japan at the moment (language student) and it is certainly different here compared to the west. For example in Silicon Valley it is acceptable to pretty much give up a college education for a startup. In East-Asia, that is shunned upon except perhaps in Taiwan. For Japan particularly, there is a "set path" of being normal/average and deviating from that path causes people to look negatively on you. For example people that only do "part time" work in Japan are considered freeters (free-timers) and not necessarily contributing to society.

Another significant things about east-asian work ethics especially Japanese, is that the rank system is still in place when it comes to corporate structures. For the typical Japanese, that means in order to be a "good" employee, you need to show up to work before your boss arrives and leave after he leaves, even if you have nothing to work on. Furthermore, after-work drinking parties with the boss are considered slightly below mandatory, you can decline the invitation but your boss will get the impression that if you do, you aren't a "good employee".

Finally death from overwork here is real. The general strategy here is if you're failing, you aren't working long enough hours. That's different from the west because if you combine that with the notion that you are more of a servant than a creator or contributor, then you suddenly end up with zombies instead of employees doing meaningful, creative work. More work general works if feedback and criticism is accepted on all levels, here that isn't the case.

The nail in the coffin is this is pretty much accepted by everyone thus if you don't accept it, you are seen as the "weird" one. Individuality is often not a good thing here. That means your Japanese wife tending to the children at home will become incredibly disappointed with you if you don't "succeed" in this system. There is an expectation that you'll more or less be the cash cow for the family otherwise you're useless.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan’s suicide culture (2013)

#130
post #88

I was suicidal for an extended period of time many years ago. Doctors weren't sure what was wrong. The hospital emergency ward gave me clonazepam and ativan, but that was only a band-aid, and didn't help long term. Although I wanted to die, my fear of death and an eternity in the Lake of Fire was a far greater fear (Revelation 21:8). I'm not asking you to believe what I do. I'm just relaying what I went through, and…

It's funny that we tell our children not to do things that will certainly have bad consequences for them, like putting their hand in fire. But still, there's mockery around after-life scenarios like we'd know something for certain. There's so much mystery around our existence, consciousness, suffering, that mocking precautions about after-life is incredibly foolish.

No. What is incredibly foolish is to contort your life because of that kind of elaborate lies.
Post reply on HN