Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#121

Post by req2 » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 5:43 PM UTC

cperciva wrote: post #99

apotheon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One need not be licensed to be honest.

True, and one doesn't need a driver's license to know how to drive -- but a system of licensing is the most efficient way of verifying qualifications.

In Illinois, you need a license to charge money to suggest where throw pillows should be placed; interior design is a licensed profession. A system of licensing is the most efficient way of verifying licenses.

Licensing helps, but it can be abused. Unlicensed anything isn't necessarily a bad thing, and, legal and mental affairs notwithstanding, buyers should be able to choose between multiple options.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#122

Post by cwan » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 5:43 PM UTC

rapind wrote: post #105

cwan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't explained why you agree with the US government on this one (though it's not just the US government). Value is subjective - so in the end, why would we rely on the government to establish value in the first place? Are you saying that instead of letting people make their own choices at an individual level as to whether or not the experience is of value, it's better for government to just ban the choice alto…

I thought I did explain my opinion, but yes you've stated it much more succinctly than I have. I believe the law protects people (specifically young people starting their careers) from exploitive practices. It also hurts them by penalizing non-exploitive and beneficial practices. I personally beleive the protection outweighs the potential benefits in this law, and thus agree with this law. Is this a little big brothe…

Can you provide an example where you would see a young person starting their career would find themselves worse off by accepting an unpaid internship?

I presume you accept that the young person would only do so if (a) they weren't able to find a paid position, or (b) the experience they believed they could get would exceed the pay they could get elsewhere - and presumably therefore would result in future benefits?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#123

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 5:49 PM UTC

tvon wrote: post #100

byrneseyeview wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An internship is just like that. The safe word is "I quit."

I don't know what else I would expect from a thread that started on such an idiotic statement, but yes, you can say that sadomasochism and unpaid internships are similar in that you can get out of both of them by saying words.

The point is that they are both activities engaged in by two consenting adults.

It's a common belief that one is not the business of the state, but the other one is. My question: what are the exceptions to the "two consenting adults can do as they wish in privacy" rule?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#124

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 5:55 PM UTC

apotheon wrote: post #96

ahoyhere wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people eating pork created the swine flu epidemic. Please. Because a disease preys on a population does not mean that population created the disease, whether or not it becomes an epidemic. I'm pretty sure that AIDS didn't spring fully formed out of the abyss, thanks to anal sex. And then, if you want to get picky, the deliberate ignoring of the health issues by public authorities escalated the epidemic.

While I'm not particularly fond of kingkongrevenge's example, I don't think you're faithfully representing it. He didn't claim it created the disease -- he claimed it created the epidemic .

[deleted]

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#125

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:01 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #34

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Procreation and norms of marriage and family have enormous social ramifications. There is no distinction.

I'm sorry, but the two have nothing to do with each other. And, honestly, I'm aghast to find such poor reasoning on HN. Employment shapes society. Employment pays taxes, puts rooves over people's heads, causes stress and worry (what if I lose my job!?), informs societal choices regarding basic social services (tied to company healthcare). Finally, employment is a public act because it is a market -- if Joe works for…

Sex is a market. Money is only involved covertly (many women seek wealthy husbands), but it is still a market. Some market pressures:

If some women have sex on the 1'st date, it will be hard for women who want to hold out until marriage to compete.

Similarly, if Tina and Joan and Kellie engage in fellatio, Jennie might have trouble keeping a boyfriend if she does not. There is your "race to the bottom".

Furthermore, sex can both cause pregnancy and spread disease, and therefore does affect healthcare.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#126

Post by clistctrl » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:07 PM UTC

I did an unpaid internship about 4 years ago.. it got my career started, and for that i'm thankful. But it makes me wonder, could I ask for back pay? I know the work i did provided value to the company.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#127

Post by fatdog789 » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:08 PM UTC

alex_c wrote: post #29

Unpaid internships are one of the biggest scams ever. You want me to work for you for free so I get "invaluable experience"? How much is my work worth to you, if you're not paying me? For that matter, how much is the experience I get, if I'm doing worthless work? You want ME to be grateful for the privilege of getting the experience of making YOU money for nothing in return? Screw YOU. Mark Cuban makes it sound like…

In some fields, the unpaid internship is valuable experience. For example, the legal profession. Legal services organizations, such as your local public defender's office or legal aid society provide more experience in 4 months than a $160k job with a big firm would provide in 3 years. You see actual clients, do meaningful legal research, and even appear in court on a regular basis. In contrast, the cushy firm job sees you in an office performing document review (i.e., looking for grammatical/spelling errors) for close to 2 years with the occasional real assignment every few months.

Also note, that in the legal profession, lawyers do not begin generating their profit for their employer (in a firm setting) until 3-4 years in -- it costs money in lost billing opportunities (clients will not pay for a new lawyer's work whatever the quality, but firms must pay salary).

(The 4 month period is chosen because that is the lag between the Cali bar exam and the release of results in late November, the "post-bar" period during which finding a paid job is close to impossible if you didn't already find one before graduation.).

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#128

Post by mattchew » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:11 PM UTC

alex_c wrote: post #29

Unpaid internships are one of the biggest scams ever. You want me to work for you for free so I get "invaluable experience"? How much is my work worth to you, if you're not paying me? For that matter, how much is the experience I get, if I'm doing worthless work? You want ME to be grateful for the privilege of getting the experience of making YOU money for nothing in return? Screw YOU. Mark Cuban makes it sound like…

You want ME to be grateful for the privilege of getting the experience of making YOU money for nothing in return? Screw YOU.

No one is talking about making you take an unpaid internship that you don't want. We're talking about whether Joe Q. Eagerbeaver should be prevented from taking an unpaid internship that he does want.

Whatever happened to treating people like mentally competent adults capable of making their own life decisions?

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#129

Post by kingkongrevenge » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:22 PM UTC

mighty wrote: post #113

kingkongrevenge wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joe doing it up the butt created the AIDS epidemic. Seems publicly relevant to me. Not that I personally care much about Joe doing it up the butt, but once you think government has a role in sculpting society there is no distinction between personal social issues and personal business issues. Women choosing to have children out of wedlock has a huge effect on everyone. Much more than some guy offering unpaid internsh…

Having lots of sexual partners creates epidemics of, wait for it...sexually transmitted disease. The manner in which people have sex, unless we're talking dry humping and such, has nothing to do with creating epidemics.

It certainly does. Anal sex is far more dangerous.

Re: Want an Unpaid Internship So You Can Get Valuable Experience ? – Screw You

#130

Post by mcantelon » Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 6:23 PM UTC

apotheon wrote: post #88

pradocchia wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he can't employ people for a project that probably won't happen at all unless he can employ interns I find that very doubtful. Why is he even considering the project if the cost of paid interns would negate the upside?

I could speculate about that all day. Maybe it has the potential to become beneficial. Maybe it has secondary effects that would be beneficial to his sports franchise, but he can't justify the expense to shareholders. Maybe he would like to provide something for the fans because he's a fan himself. What's it to you why he wants to do it?

If it has value in these forms then why isn't he willing to pay for this value? Basically he wants unpaid interns to subsidize his investment. Not only do the interns themselves pay, but society as a whole pays as unpaid internships devalue labor.