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Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

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Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#121

Post by ThePhysicist »

rdtsc wrote: post #66
ThePhysicist wrote: post #22

Brilliant move: Protect the Russian citizens from foreign government spying by making sure that all their data stays in their own country under the protection of their democratic government. Oh wait...

Granted they could have done it before as well, it is just that the shining example of "open" and "free" has been revealed to suck up and spy on everything and everyone so now they can easily do it because there NSA did the PR bit for them. "Oh look the evil NSA is taking out citizens' data". You see, it actually is so and no matter how sarcastic you want to get it is still true. Same with terrorism. When we attacked…

Just to clarify: In my comment I was not actually suggesting that I consider Russia to be a democratic country, quite the contrary in fact. Sorry if that didn't become clear.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#122

Post by ThePhysicist »

bottled_poe wrote: post #54
ThePhysicist wrote: post #22

Brilliant move: Protect the Russian citizens from foreign government spying by making sure that all their data stays in their own country under the protection of their democratic government. Oh wait...

What makes you think that a democratic government is different from any other system of government in this regard? It's funny how ideology and reality never seem to align, isn't it?

In fact I was trying to suggest that Russia is NOT a democratic country and that hosting user data within their territory will probably mostly serve the intelligence needs of the Russian secret service (FSB).

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#123

Post by hopeless »

Amezarak wrote: post #31
hopeless wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could easily see the EU strengthening our data protection laws in the next few years to take us in this direction. In light of the NSA scandals there's probably a strong justification for this… except that the UK is a bigger danger to privacy and it operates within the EU.

Nearly every EU country is documented to have similar programs, not just the UK. Some are even much more aggressive about industrial espionage - for example, France. When European politicians make noise about using European-based services, it isn't so they can be sure your privacy is protected, it's so EU-based organizations can access those servers without having to negotiate with the NSA. As a side benefit, they ca…

Whilst most of the larger EU countries have some civil spying program, the UK operates on a much wider scale throughout the world. It is also particularly concerning for me in Ireland as a large portion of Irish internet traffic must flow through the UK, and there are specific monitoring stations setup to intercept this fibre.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#124

Post by bayesianhorse »

gtirloni wrote: post #86
bayesianhorse wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not democracy unless quite a few conditions are met. Elections alone aren't satisfactory. Unless there is free speech, (completely) universal suffrage and honest authorities, there can't be a democracy. Russia restricts free speech and universal suffrage through relatively "efficient" means, compared with China. Putin ensures his power with a lot less effort than the CCP. Also "honesty" in Russian authorities is…

By your requirements for democracy, there is not a single democratic country on Earth. And Russia restricts free speech better than China? Although I wouldn't argue Russia is a bastion of free speech, I do talk with my Russian friends over Facebook, Skype, email, etc, make jokes about and criticize their (and our) governments just fine without any problems so far. I cannot say the same of my Chinese colleagues, which…

There is not a single perfect democracy. But there are countries that come very close, and others don't. In Russia, there is no Chance anyone but Putin is elected. There is no division of power, the courts and parliament are directly under Putin's control. So are major industrial corporations. Journalists are murdered by the dozens in Russia, with particular emphasis on those who criticize the government. Which might explain why there is no mainstream media that criticizes the government any more.

The opposition is ridiculous. If any oppositionals develop an effective platform or support, they usually go to jail, are murdered or disappear.

In Moscow, you can't hold up fake signs without getting arrested. Protests and demonstrations are only ever "allowed" if they are pro-Putin.

And let's not get started on the extremely corrupt bureaucracy. Putin couldn't hold a fair election or mandate a fair rule of law even if he wanted to.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#125

Post by bayesianhorse »

therealunreal wrote: post #4

It's sad that it's spiraling down to this but it is in practice no different than what the US is doing. There's no free speech without privacy so this looks like a "choose your dictator" kind of thing.

The US president has much less power over you than Putin has over Russians.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#126

Post by pyre »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #115
pyre wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments > how about the US in the last 14 years [...] Iran Maybe I'm missing something, but when did the US overthrow Iran's government in the last 14 years? Or Syria for that matter?

You are right - we overthrew Iran's government way back in the 1950s, not recently. Their president was a popular moderate (a medical doctor I think). Then we forced the Shah of Iran on the Iranian people. In my lifetime I believe that we have tried to overthrow 30+ governments around the world when in the interests of America's financial elite. Do you know what I consider patriotism to be? It includes admitting thin…

This whole thread started from "US does more bad things than Russia, just look at recent history." You can't start tossing things that the US did in the 50's on the table, and not do the same for Russia. The whole point (as I see it) of the "in the last 14 years" qualifier is that we're talking recent history. It's disingenuous to dredge up things from much further into the past.

It was also a different time period with different considerations. Now I'm not being an apologist for this stuff, but I would say that similar actions in the more recent past have much less justification, even if you are someone that buys into the "Domino Effect" defense from the Cold War-era.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#127

Post by Schwoisser »

pyre wrote: post #126
mark_l_watson wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right - we overthrew Iran's government way back in the 1950s, not recently. Their president was a popular moderate (a medical doctor I think). Then we forced the Shah of Iran on the Iranian people. In my lifetime I believe that we have tried to overthrow 30+ governments around the world when in the interests of America's financial elite. Do you know what I consider patriotism to be? It includes admitting thin…

This whole thread started from "US does more bad things than Russia, just look at recent history." You can't start tossing things that the US did in the 50's on the table, and not do the same for Russia. The whole point (as I see it) of the "in the last 14 years" qualifier is that we're talking recent history. It's disingenuous to dredge up things from much further into the past. It was also a different time period w…

Maybe there is no good guy in this game.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#128

Post by Schwoisser »

mercurial wrote: post #85
alexro wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think trivial and you'll be safe. There are degrees of corruption between of the biggest countries and the tiny ones, but not so much inside the group. The methods vary, of course.

You have plenty of small, extremely corrupt countries as well.

But smaller countries tend to do better.
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