Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you had a written promise, could you sue?
Would you work for an employer that you had to sue to force them to allow you to work there?
I think the point would be because of the time wasting on the employer's part.
My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
121–130 of 186 posts
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Google's contract they also stipulate that if you use any of your own stuff in your job at Google you grant Google a perpetual worldwide license to use, modify, and sublicense that material without any compensation to you. Its sort of like 'copyleft' except it sucks into Google anything you touch, and use at least once at work. And always be dubious when the company lawyer says, "Well that is what it says but that…
That is a verbal amendment to your employment contract, and as long as you do not sign an additional contract that somehow says "No, this actually means this" feel free to fuck shit up in court. That is a breach of contract and the company will be liable for damages (if any) and at least be required to give up any assumed license. Verbal employment contracts are enforceable in in all 50 states.
This is absolutely 100% false and a good example of why you shouldn't take legal advice from the internet.
When you have a written contract, any and all verbal contracts or amendments mean absolutely nothing. It's called the "four corners doctrine" and is a pretty universal judicial practice. Written contracts always, ALWAYS supersede any verbal agreements: with a written contract in hand, any mentions of oral discussions are irrelevant and will fall on deaf ears.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#123I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? What if I was to write a book during that sam…
Don't know the situation in the US, but in Germany you might get some trouble: (citing myself:) Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has…
Actually, go read the law (ArbnErfG, § 18 Mitteilungspflicht, Satz (3)) says otherwise:
(3) Eine Verpflichtung zur Mitteilung freier Erfindungen besteht nicht, wenn die Erfindung offensichtlich im Arbeitsbereich des Betriebes des Arbeitgebers nicht verwendbar ist.
The law also stipulates that for any invention or major improvement, even for the ones that you do during your work time that your employer wishes to keep the rights for, you're entitled to a fair compensation. So yes, if you invent something that is related to your employers business, the employer gets the first right. But I do think that the situation is much better - you at least get compensation.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#124My solution to this has been: * When I need to work on something, I think of the library I wish existed to get it done. Anything I need that is employer-specific should be configurable * I make the library and release it with an MIT license * I then use that library to accomplish my goal This has the benefit of usually making me write better software. And it motivates me to make the open code better quality and bette…
> * I make the library and release it with an MIT license
This might get you into trouble. Basically, anything you touch during your work hours is tainted by your employers copyrights. You're not allowed to decide which license that code should be under. So either you write that whole library in your spare time (and on top of that do your regular day job) or get your employers permission to release the code.
In general the approach is sound and I'd support it, but others might or might not.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#125Maybe don't sign these types of contracts? We are fortunate enough that even the most mediocre among us can hold out for the next employer that doesn't demand this kind of control over you, or start your own company. I don't give a shit what a company says about their culture of work/life balance or whatever. If I see blanket IP clauses unrelated to non-compete, or like arbitration clauses that remove us from civil c…
> I once saw a contract that stated I couldn't work in the field for TWO YEARS after terminating. Not just large machine equipment, but ANY mobile/web applications, related to integration with embedded systems or not. Yeah no thanks.
Interestingly, here the legislagtion allows this kind of clauses only if you're receiving a "significant part" of your original pay from that company until the end of that period. Also, they have 2 weeks time after you quit to decide if they'll enforce it or not and the clause has to be written into the contract from the start of your employment.
Which is actually way more reasonable that some contracts I've seen from the US-based companies.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#126Confucious held that an idea or invention, once emerged, belongs to the whole world rather than the one that came up with it, this may be a contributing factor that China has such an IP issue, though it may be blasphemous, but it is another way to see the world.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#127Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has nothing to do with your current job, you must first ask your employer, if he wants to buy the i…
Since you posted the same thing further upthread, I'll correct you here as well:
Actually, go read the law (ArbnErfG, § 18 Mitteilungspflicht, Satz (3)) says otherwise:
(3) Eine Verpflichtung zur Mitteilung freier Erfindungen besteht nicht, wenn die Erfindung offensichtlich im Arbeitsbereich des Betriebes des Arbeitgebers nicht verwendbar ist.
You only have to ask your employer if the invention was made in the course of your work (during work time) or part of the employers business. Totally unrelated inventions made in your free time are _not_ covered by the law.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#128My solution to this has been: * When I need to work on something, I think of the library I wish existed to get it done. Anything I need that is employer-specific should be configurable * I make the library and release it with an MIT license * I then use that library to accomplish my goal This has the benefit of usually making me write better software. And it motivates me to make the open code better quality and bette…
Is your company's product open sourced? I think that is the exception, not the rule, and makes takes the discussion in a different direction
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's stopping you from setting an outrageous price?
I don't think, that you are free to set your own price. But of course, I am not current in these special law topics. But in Germany, as in many other countries: If it goes to court, you will loose against a big company. It was an other situation, but a lawyer once told me, what happens when such things go to court: The corporation will bring 10 witnesses against you and will bring 10 experts certifying what the corpo…
You're not free to set your own price, there are guidelines set forth in the law (ArbnErfG, § 11 Vergütungsrichtlinien) - which also means that the employer cannot undercut those guidelines and force you to hand your invention over for free. If there's a disagreement about the price, there's a mediation set forth in the law, so the first thing would not be a court case.
In general, german courts are quite employee friendly, so seriously, your employer would probably be at least as afraid to go to court as you'd be. Maybe not if it's a litigation-happy megacorp, but the bulk of german companies is medium-sized (Mittelstand) and they tend to shy away from court cases.
Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Not everyone has the will... to do such a thing. This may just be crotchety old man talk, but sometimes I wonder if the extremely protective child-rearing (particularly in schools) that seems to be abundant today will make future adults particularly susceptible to this kind of bullying. If you never have to deal with this kind of social stress as a child, how can you possibly deal with it as an adult? Perhaps gettin…
Being humiliated and beaten as a child with no control over the situation is not "training" for anything. It's abundantly clear that you did not experience that and have no idea what it is like for a child. Let's hope as a crotchety old man that nobody ever decides to show you what it's like when you're stuck in a nursing home where no one believes or cares to help you because of some stupid reason like that it shoul…
Geez man.