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BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

bbc.co.uk

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Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#121

Post by WiseWeasel »

JshWright wrote: post #55
WiseWeasel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A self-driving car system might be statistically safer than a human drivers in overall conditions, and still be prone to failure in an exceptional situation a particular driver wouldn't have been. If you have the potential to be that driver in that situation, I could understand feeling the scare quotes are warranted. Which percentile of the population does an automated system need to outperform to be safer rather tha…

I am (in my own estimation) a very good driver. I drive a manual transmission car, and enjoy using the flexibility that provides in my daily driving. I drive emergency vehicles of various sizes, in a lot of less than ideal conditions (I live in upstate New York, so weather is a big factor in driving conditions). I have no problem believing that a computer will be able to do an objectively better job of driving than I…

So you feel that 100% is easily within reach? As a coder, I can't help but think it'll be a while before we iron out all the bugs in the driving AI, and as a result, we'll see self-driving cars on the roads long before they are able to outperform 100% of human drivers in all situations, or even your average sober, attentive driver in all situations.

Even if their reaction processing times are orders of magnitude faster and the sensors give you significantly better awareness, if there are conditions where the sequence of AI responses and priorities are conflicting or wrong, then you'll just be faster and better at getting the wrong solution, sometimes tragically so.

I don't doubt that we'll ultimately be much better off with self-driving cars being the rule, but it may be a bumpy road to get there.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#123

Post by darklajid »

sukuriant wrote: post #118
bane wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have a car I can drive if I want to, or hit a button and have it just autopilot there instead.

I am all for this system as well. I don't think you and the grandparent are in disagreement, either. It looks like what they're saying is "give me varying levels of automation, including but not limited to full automation --- as long as I can have as much control as I want at the time." similar to a car with an option to disable traction control.

This sounds a bit like the car in I-Robot (which happens to be Audi built..).

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#124

Post by maxerickson »

Someone wrote: post #113
maxerickson wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might work out better than you think in your last paragraph. Auto routed vehicles will reliably choose the 'main' route through an area (instead of whichever they feel is fastest), so segregated routing should work better (and with little additional physical infrastructure you can have one way rush hour streets and such).

In many old city centers, there isn't much room for segregated routing. Also, why would pedestrians or even cyclists care about one way streets? Even if they do, consider the case where streams of cyclists enter a one way street just in front of an automatic car. That could easily happen in Amsterdam (for an impression, see http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/amsterdam-bicyc... or http://www.nytimes.com/2013…

If there are 3 streets, the pedestrians and cyclists can take the one with no cars on it. In Amsterdam, cars could reliably be routed out and around (I think lots of people probably already use this strategy, but the point is that the auto router would never cheat).

Did you understand segregated routing to mean separate streets?

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#125

Post by rayiner »

sukuriant wrote: post #100
rayiner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a BMW owner myself, I say: "good riddance to driving being fun." I used to get a kick out of it when I was younger, but now that I'm married with a kid it's just an exercise in paranoia and frustration. People are fucking nuts in the way they drive. My friend just got T-boned hard enough to flip his car 360 degrees a couple of months ago, by some asshole speeding in the shoulder as traffic was backed up. I see an…

"by some asshole speeding in the shoulder as traffic was backed up." fun driving and reckless endangerment of the people on the road around you, including aggressive disregard for the rules of the road, especially driving on the shoulder are two very, very, very different things. Raise the speed limits and make fines and enforcement more frequent for not using turn signals, aggressive lane-changing where other people…

> fun driving and reckless endangerment of the people on the road around you, including aggressive disregard for the rules of the road, especially driving on the shoulder are two very, very, very different things.

The two are not disjoint things. A lot of people, particularly teenagers, engage in reckless driving behaviors because it's fun.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#126

Post by femto »

peterwwillis wrote: post #32
dcc1 wrote: post #16

This is bad news (despite being a BMW owner) In future driving will no longer be fun, if you want to drive "non-automated" car or disable "auto-pilot" your insurance company will automatically jack up your premium, since they would consider self driving cars "safer"

I don't think this will be the case. Automated driving is only useful if you know where you're going. If you're on a leisurely ride through the country or are looking for a place with no address, you can't use automated navigation. So disabling it would be a necessity for a variety of driving purposes. As an aside, motorsport enthusiasts would be up in arms if they had to pay a premium just to be able to drive their…

The scenarios in your first paragraph can be handled by treating the controls of the car as an input for the self-driving system. The accelerator asks the self-driving system to move forwards, whilst the steering wheel asks it to turn into the street to your right/left. Or, recognise that the existing controls no longer fit the purpose and come up with a better way of giving such input. For example, you might just point to where the car should go, or say "stop here".

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#127

Post by arrrg »

schrodinger wrote: post #41
Nicholas_C wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the lives of humans are more important than some thrill seekers who want to drive around a few tons of metal without paying extra.

What's the point of a life not enjoyed?

I’m pretty sure people in one century will still be easily able to drive around for fun. Just like I can go horse riding for fun right now, despite horse riding being obsolete as actual transportation.

I’m also pretty sure that there were people waxing poetically about the joys of using horses for transportation a century ago and predicting doom and gloom because of the joyless and horseless future they foresaw. Those people probably didn’t shut up about it for the rest of their life, but in the end it all didn’t matter because they died and that’s that.

The thing is that most people on the street do not drive for fun, they drive to get from point A to point B and that’s that. Self-driving cars improve the quality and safety of going from point A to point B for them.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#128

Post by bskap »

joosters wrote: post #103
theatraine wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article gives a good overview in the USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_cities_in_the_United_St...

I can't see any cities there that significantly shrank and then grew again. Care to name some if you know of any?

New York's population was steady from 1950-1970 before dropping about 10% between 1970 and 1980. Considering that the US population increased by about 50% between 1950 and 1980, I'd consider that a rather significant decrease.

Re: BMW shows off 'drifting' self-drive cars

#130

Post by uniclaude »

dcc1 wrote: post #16

This is bad news (despite being a BMW owner) In future driving will no longer be fun, if you want to drive "non-automated" car or disable "auto-pilot" your insurance company will automatically jack up your premium, since they would consider self driving cars "safer"

This is great news to me.

Automated cars open the doors to:

- A potentially larger market for private tracks where you'll be enjoying racing, or even pleasure driving. It would be totally possible to have roads that are only here for pleasure driving. I can picture the Izu Skyline or other really beautiful roads that you pay to get a marvelous driving experience.

- A much safer world. If every car on public roads would be driving itself, you would not have to worry about a driver having an abnormal behavior and hurting/killing you in the process[1].

- Cheaper insurance? I don't really believe this, but it could happen, as there would be a lot less accidents.

I enjoy driving, I really do, but I'll use a self driving car any day, and I'm totally willing to pay an extra to drive in a safe and controlled environment like a private track. I think it's a win for everyone. If you enjoy driving, you'll enjoy staying safe, and self driving cars are bringing this safety.

[1]: I recently had an accident while coming back home, an old driver panicked because he didn't know where to go, and suddenly pushed hard on his brakes.

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