Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Angular Announces AngularDart

news.dartlang.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 177 posts

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#121

Post by evilduck »

numbsafari wrote: post #57
kyrra wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number of the members of the Chrome team. If you watch the announcement from when Blink hit, they did some developer talks. When asked about the integration of Dart into Chrome, it was fairly obvious that some of the guys didn't want Dart in there [0]. But at the same time, a high-level direction is being set to try and get Dart added. Google employs a LOT of developers. A lot of those developers feel the same way…

Google can have Dart if Microsoft can have VBScript back. j/k. I doubt even Microsoft would want to bring that abomination back. Or would they??

It's not gone. You can still run VBScript in IE10 in lieu of Javascript.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#122

Post by rdtsc »

Helianthus wrote: post #118
rdtsc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am flocking to Dart. Just because there are handful of "developers" yelling and spitting at everyone here doesn't mean others don't like Dart or are not learning it. They just don't yell and spit in everyone's face about so it makes it seems like "OMG nobody uses Dart, please shut it down". Dart is a great language, I like it. It has consistent typing rules, very fast, has a good IDE. I for one, would like to thank…

One rdtsc does not make a flock :P But I don't have any problem with Dart as an experiment in language design. I don't even really have any problem with Angular.dart. We can always use another language that transpiles down to javascript. People are free to use what they want. (Unfortunately, my understanding is the dart2js process is horrifically inefficient, but that's no skin off my nose.) I will, however, drive ho…

> I will, however, drive home the point that Dart cannot out-compete CoffeeScript or TypeScript;

How are you driving it home besides just repeating it without any other supporting statements? Saying something 3 times doesn't make it truer.

> Dart will not replace javascript and will not be the native language of the web

Still don't get why it wouldn't. What is qualitatively different about DartVM vs v8. It could be 2-3 development cycles away from inclusion should Google decide to do it. What exactly code-wise is preventing that to happen?

> Unfortunately, my understanding is the dart2js process is horrifically inefficient, but that's no skin off my nose.)

Looking at their benchmarks their dart2js is not too far off v8 numbers. Now add types plus a nice IDE and I can see how a larger project might choose instead of JS.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#123

Post by Helianthus »

rdtsc wrote: post #116
Helianthus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

developer mindshare. Check tag count for questions on SO; 4500 for CoffeeScript, 1500 for Dart. Not to mention the violent revulsion many people (myself included) are expressing in this topic.

> Not to mention the violent revulsion many people (myself included) are expressing in this topic. Immaturity seems like a good explanation of that effect

Not your best work.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#124

Post by rdtsc »

Helianthus wrote: post #123
rdtsc wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention the violent revulsion many people (myself included) are expressing in this topic. Immaturity seems like a good explanation of that effect

Not your best work.

I just let Occam do the dirty work for me sometimes.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#125

Post by Helianthus »

rdtsc wrote: post #122
Helianthus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One rdtsc does not make a flock :P But I don't have any problem with Dart as an experiment in language design. I don't even really have any problem with Angular.dart. We can always use another language that transpiles down to javascript. People are free to use what they want. (Unfortunately, my understanding is the dart2js process is horrifically inefficient, but that's no skin off my nose.) I will, however, drive ho…

> I will, however, drive home the point that Dart cannot out-compete CoffeeScript or TypeScript; How are you driving it home besides just repeating it without any other supporting statements? Saying something 3 times doesn't make it truer. > Dart will not replace javascript and will not be the native language of the web Still don't get why it wouldn't. What is qualitatively different about DartVM vs v8. It could be 2…

There's a bit of a chicken-egg problem with a project choosing Dart, in that Dart has to already be ubiquitous for it to even be an option.

What is the pathway for Dart adoption? Google puts it in Chrome. Sure. Dart programmers get to deploy to the Chrome browser, so they do some fun side projects and they run on Chrome only. Fine.

Show me how Dart can then move to every browser on every device.

Then show me how whatever hypothetical process you came up with doesn't apply to any other language that currently exists.

If we're going to put a new runtime in the browser, Dart isn't the only option.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#127

Post by rdtsc »

spuz wrote: post #11
andyl wrote: post #9

I'm using AngularJS. But this Dart news is a dark cloud. I will never use Dart, or anything that locks me into Google's walled garden. I view Dart as a major negative. Hello Ember.

"I will never use Dart" That's quite a sure statement. Why don't you think Dart will ever be natively adopted by Firefox at some point in the future?

A developer who is seeing "dark clouds" and other doomsday scenarios at release of a nice open sourced package not using or participating in a community is an asset to that community.

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#128

Post by spankalee »

Helianthus wrote: post #117
cromwellian wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that metric, GWT blows away CoffeeScript with ~15,000 questions on SO. Are you sure you want to use that metric?

Point was to compare compile-to-javascript languages.

Uh, GWT is a Java-to-JS compiler.

On that note, Java has 508,338 questions on StackOverflow, which crushes CoffeeScript, /especially/ with those 15,000 GWT questions ;)

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#129

Post by spankalee »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #87

Don't know much about Dart. Is there a way for Dart code to call/use Javascript libraries? Like could I use D3 in Dart?

Yep, we use d3.js on Dart projects internally.

Check out the dart:js library, which is pretty new, and the article that _ak linked (which needs some updating).

http://api.dartlang.org/docs/releases/latest/dart_js.html

Re: Angular Announces AngularDart

#130

Post by rdtsc »

golergka wrote: post #66
wamatt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BrendenEich said this of Dart, 2 years ago on HN, and might help explain OP's sentiment: For the record, I'm not worried about JS being replaced by a better language. I am working to do that within Ecma TC39, by evolving JS aggressively. The leaked Google doc's assertion that this is impossible and that a "clean break" is required to make significant improvements is nonsense, a thin rationale for going it alone rathe…

> A Dart to JS compiler will never be "decent" compared to having the Dart VM in the browser. I'm new to javascript & dart, so honest question here: why?

Don't listen to the hate and vitriol.

Dart has a nice IDE, good clean types and language design. People are upset because they jumped on the wrong band-wagon and now something shiner and newer came around so they are not the cool hipsters anymore. Kind of like in the kindergarten the kid with the shiny new bike is boasting then some other kid gets the later, better, shinier model, the first gets upset and throws a tantrum.

Look at Dart's performance benchmarks. Its DartVM is about 2x as fast as v8 (JS) and its compiled to JS version is on par with v8.

https://www.dartlang.org/performance/

Post reply on HN