Live data from Hacker News

I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

startingdotneprogramming.blogspot.com

121–130 of 336 posts

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you help someone out, you put yourself in an inferior position. I don't think so. I don't feel so. At least when things are reasonable. Rather to the contrary: I feel stronger for being able to help. Of course, in an unhealthy situation where help is required but not appreciated, and the person who help is not respected, then it's different. Fortunately, not my case most of the time.

I don't think so. I don't feel so. It's important to keep in mind that the other party may feel superior, even though you don't feel inferior. However, for many people this whole thing will never become a problem, because they are good at protecting their integrity. At least when things are reasonable. Rather to the contrary: I feel stronger for being able to help. That may very well be the case. But people (and situ…

It's important to keep in mind that the other party may feel superior, even though you don't feel inferior.

I can't quite see why that is important. It doesn't hurt me that the other party feels superior. Sometimes it may amuse me, though.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#122

Mental illness is very common. This story has nothing to do with programming, except that technically strong people are given a lot of leeway for strange behavior, meaning that folks who need treatment often do not get it soon enough. The other point, and I think by now all of us should know this, is that we are each responsible for our health and our careers - we cannot look forward to a lifetime with a paternalisti…

I don't like labeling this type of situation mental illness. That suggests that it's only the individual who is ill. It seems to me that situations like this result from a sick system as much or more than from individual sickness.

Are you saying that the system is broken because some jobs ask you to be a hard worker?

The article indicated nothing specific that the company had done wrong. It even admitted that the guy was "well treated and well paid" for his hard work - he just didn't like how he was "respected".

It's astonishing me that getting paid and treated well to work hard triggers a comment that the "system is sick".

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#123
post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

I have only 1.5 years of work experience as software engineer. Maybe I am wrong, but aren't most of these quirks just a part of working with others? Regardless you are working for yourself, a company or organization, you have to deal with people. And people can be unethical, apathetic, incompetent, rigid, inexperienced, inappropriate. And when your company become large, it will have processes to limit your reign of power for good of the company. Every person I've worked with (mostly software guys) think they are better than others, and suffered. To me, it's more of an inability to work with others and handling situations and problems.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#124
If you're feeling similarly, or have in the past, and are looking for an alternative then you might want to consider teaching.

I used to do cubicle work at a couple of tech companies and fucking hated it. I simply cannot stomach office politics, and I can't tolerate others that do the whole ladder climbing, brown nosing thing around me. The straw that broke the camel's back was when my line manager took credit for my work right in front of me without even batting an eyelid. I observed this type of sociopathic behaviour many times from many people. I literally couldn't believe how many fuck heads there are out there.

Here are some benefits that I'm enjoying as a teacher at the moment:

1. Great salary. 90k/year in Australia. I've heard that in other parts of the world it can be a low paying job.

2. Great working hours. 8:30am - 4pm. 30 mins recess, 50 mins lunch. 7 "free" (non teaching) lessons per week (this is equivalent to one day per week) There are lots of teachers that like to play the "poor me" card and tell you how they spend every night till midnight grading work. They're either liars, or are terrible at time management. I consider myself a perfectly OK teacher, and I never go past 4pm and very rarely do school work on a weekend.

3. 14 weeks of paid vacation - I just spent the last 2 weeks doing a garden renovation and got paid to do it.

4. No boss. Technically the principal is my boss, but in 3 years I have barely said more than hello to him and, I sometimes go months without seeing him. No line manager either. What I do in my class is my business. I choose the manner in which I deliver content as well as the interesting tangents that we explore.

5. No office politics bullshit. Schools have a very flat org structure. If you're not looking at advancing to the admin side of things (deputy/principal) then there is effectively no career path (I consider this a good thing).

6. Heaps of time for side projects.

7. Varied work. No two kids are the same, no two semester are ever the same. There are always interesting things happening. Sports days, senior formal, camp etc. I recently spend a week visiting work experience kids and got to visit an army base and defence research facility.

8. Over the years it's inevitable that you will make a difference in some kid's life. Whether it's helping them through a tough emotional period or helping them make informed life and career goals.

There is no way in a million years I could go back to the regular working world. I simply could not give away the complete autonomy and excellent vacation time.

In Australia there is a post-grad degree that you can do which will give you a full teacher qualification in just 18 months. Worth seeing if your district offers similar programs.

Caveat:

1. The school you're at matters. I am at a middle class private school with great kids. I've worked at very tough schools and life sucked, however, some thrive in these conditions.

2. The subject(s) you teach matter. Language rich will entail far more reading and giving written feedback which obviously impacts on hours worked. If you stick to Maths and IT grading is far easier.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#125

Mental illness is very common. This story has nothing to do with programming, except that technically strong people are given a lot of leeway for strange behavior, meaning that folks who need treatment often do not get it soon enough. The other point, and I think by now all of us should know this, is that we are each responsible for our health and our careers - we cannot look forward to a lifetime with a paternalisti…

You definitely don't deserve to be downvoted. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed about and needs to be treated seriously and head-on. Downvoting this is tantamount to stigmatization.

The worker described in the article is shockingly similar to someone I knew several years. That person had a psychotic breakdown at work and accosted our CEO (physically and verbally). He too worked long hours and was considered a productive employee. Though no one cracked the whip on him, I'm sure the stress was a trigger.

Luckily for him, he was in a good enough place to find help and take a step back to recover. Employees at my company kept in contact with him and talked with him frequently. Eventually he found another position and is thriving. I hope the worker in the article gets the same sort of support and isn't stigmatized by his actions.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#126

This is only tangentially related, but since I'm posting under a throwaway (I've been on HN for many years under my main nick) and can't really ask anyone to upvote this, I feel that this is my best chance for someone to see it. For the last few months I've been growing more depressed, more anxious, and more stressed. I love my job, but it requires a good deal of interaction with clients, which never fails to stress…

I can't comment on the whole situation, since I live outside of the USA, but I can give you some advice about Problem #1.

There are great books by David Burns: "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" and "When Panic Attacks". Both are available at amazon kindle: http://amzn.com/0380810336 and http://amzn.com/076792083X The "Feeling Good" book is focused primarily on depression issues and "When Panic Attacs" (as its name suggest) on various anxiety disorder. I suggest to read them both. They are really helpful, but not just because of their content(which is good), but because they present of number techniques from Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy, which you can apply on yourself. But please note that reading the book and using these methodics is order of magnitude more effective than just reading the book and internalizing its contents.

Also, can you please elaborate on your issue with finding a therapist? Can you just go to a therapy session? Or you can't because you have to overcome strong anxiety first? If you are able to come and see a therapist(being able to manage your anxiety if you have any), then find a good CBT therapist and do come see her of him. Therapists are trained to deal with people who have all sorts of issues, even such serious as yours.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#127

This is only tangentially related, but since I'm posting under a throwaway (I've been on HN for many years under my main nick) and can't really ask anyone to upvote this, I feel that this is my best chance for someone to see it. For the last few months I've been growing more depressed, more anxious, and more stressed. I love my job, but it requires a good deal of interaction with clients, which never fails to stress…

At a treatment facility they will help you design a long term treatment plan.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#129

Mental illness is very common. This story has nothing to do with programming, except that technically strong people are given a lot of leeway for strange behavior, meaning that folks who need treatment often do not get it soon enough. The other point, and I think by now all of us should know this, is that we are each responsible for our health and our careers - we cannot look forward to a lifetime with a paternalisti…

Thank you for pointing this out. Your downvotes are not deserved. I imagine a number of mentally healthly programmers looking to prove a point in regards to unscrupulous employers would prefer that this not be chalked up to mental illness. Though the story to me reads like a classic case of mental illness and eventual breakdown. I posted a comment on the blog asking for follow up of the individuals case. Despite citi…

Off topic - but how does one downvote on HN? I only see a small up arrow to the left of the commenters' names. No down arrow.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#130
post #84

Although this is an extreme example, I sympathize and often have feelings like this. But it's not about the amount of work; it's about the constant internal struggle. Let me explain. I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service. I…

"I have never had a problem about the volume or difficulty of work in any job I've ever had. In fact, some of my favorite memories of work have been sprints to finish something, whether in software, retail/distribution, or food service." I'm sure if I put you on a 120 hour week for a few months you'd change your opinion about that, even if you were to ship something at the end of it. I don't think it's a good idea no…

120-hour week for a few months? Shipped at the end of it?

Is that a real project you worked on?

If so, and if it happened a couple years ago in Colorado -- I was one of your coworkers.

And I left just a couple weeks after the rest of you guys.

That was some crazy shit but in the end we did ship. And on time, even.

But I can't even pass that freeway exit any more without feeling a sense of dread.

Post reply on HN