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China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

reuters.com

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Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#121

Post by seanmcdirmid »

don_esteban wrote: post #63
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can employ as many engineers as you want but if you compartilize them enough and separate key processes to a very small group of people (Dutch citizens or whatever, maybe military), you can actually protect the process as a whole. It’s not like a nuclear bomb that even high school students can even figure out how to make without much help.

The thing is that an expert in the area does not need the detailed how-to guide/complete description of the process. Few hints here and there can help to get over the key hurdles, with most other steps either a general knowledge for the experts, or analogues can be independently developed without too much trouble. Yes, the result is not the same, but actually developing indigenous expertise is the key required compon…

China has a lot of bits and pieces of process but they are spending time to figure out how to put them together along with a few key locked up secrets that you just can’t get with smarts alone. They will definitely get there, but don’t be surprised if they come up with a very different solution because being derivative just wasn’t an option

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#122

Post by seanmcdirmid »

t-writescode wrote: post #62
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are just some things that China can’t access and they have to reinvent on their own. Like 50 years of intensive materials research that is locked away in a safe and access is heavily restricted. Yes, China could innovate by standing on the shoulders of giants if they had access to the giants, they simply don’t have access.

I struggle to imagine that all 50 years have been wholly blocked from all international research students. That seems highly implausible. Edit: for a comparison, it took the Soviet Union 4 years to have their own Atom Bomb after the US dropped two.

Again, the Cold War and moon shots generated ALOT of data that the west keeps locked up very well. I don’t think we can really fathom today the resources they dumped into figuring things out, and how much we’ve been coasting on that work.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#123

Post by the_sleaze_ »

jona-f wrote: post #44
the_sleaze_ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espionage

Nah, you watch too many movies, they openly hired former asml employees.

It's only a google away friend.

> https://dominotheory.com/taiwan-issues-first-national-securi...

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#124

Post by t-writescode »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #122
t-writescode wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to imagine that all 50 years have been wholly blocked from all international research students. That seems highly implausible. Edit: for a comparison, it took the Soviet Union 4 years to have their own Atom Bomb after the US dropped two.

Again, the Cold War and moon shots generated ALOT of data that the west keeps locked up very well. I don’t think we can really fathom today the resources they dumped into figuring things out, and how much we’ve been coasting on that work.

Are you intentionally invoking the same style of argument of Ancient Aliens and rejecting all public - that is, *in the open* work that thousands of scientists have done over the last 50 years and instead preferring to create a scenario where we invented everything 50 years ago and are slow-trickling it into the world?

Like, Independence Day style?

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#125

Post by anigbrowl »

applicative wrote: post #117
anigbrowl wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schrödinger's economy https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/why-do-people-keep-predictin...

Does thediplomat.com also have articles on the historical depth of of the list of predictions that the USA will collapse? It is a far older and infinitely more pervasive phenomenon.

Is that so? I'd be delighted to review some examples.

Re: China begins producing advanced chipmaking deep-ultraviolet lithography machines

#126

Post by anigbrowl »

sleepyguy wrote: post #108
defrost wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^^Please don't do this^^ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Do you think they aren't here? It needs to be pointed out, so folks are aware.

What needs to be pointed out? I'm not Chinese, nor do I have any kind of affiliation with China. I suppose now you're going call me a 'useful idiot' for holding a personal opinion that somehow annoys you.
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