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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#121

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ericmay wrote: post #118
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why s…

> sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well?

Why? I think the first is a good idea and the second fine if that’s what they want.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#122

Post by chinathrow »

ouk wrote: post #14

This initiative is a trap. Essentially, it would allow for the termination of bilateral agreements with Europe. This is what the SVP has been trying to do for decades, and this initiative provides them with a convenient excuse. And it’s particularly ironic because the SVP has always opposed legislation promoting sustainability.

Meanwhile SVP head politicians employ quite a few foreign workers at all levels of employment hierarchy.

It's pathetic.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#124

Post by skywhopper »

dnautics wrote: post #28
amunozo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

how did they ever survive in the pre-EU/schengen/EEC era?

Their neighbors were similarly restrictive back then, and the European economy was not as integrated.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#125

Post by jalapenoj »

SllX wrote: post #25
fractallyte wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's being proposed in order to maintain quality of life. No one wants to be overcrowded. This is a sane solution: collectively agree on the maximum tolerable population. Then it's down to individual responsibility to obey the norms of one's society. Edit: unless you're Swiss, your opinion is irrelevant. Swiss voters have a right to decide how they want to live. They're not beholden to EU laws; they can make their ow…

There’s never anything sane with population caps by fiat. If that’s a form of insanity they wish to indulge though, then democracy allows them that.

[flagged]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#126

Post by FabCH »

One interesting point for me is that, IMHO, the propaganda on the „no“ side wad _abysmal_.

The counter arguments are awful and they are presented awfully and not even in such high quantity as you would expect.

I think it has a good chance of passing just because of that.

And then political shitf***y will begin with „we don’t know how to turn this into law!“, which is not good for the basis of democracy…

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#127

Post by skywhopper »

greenavocado wrote: post #13
amunozo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

At the very least it’s an infringement of human rights.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#128

Post by philipallstar »

arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy

European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#129

Post by JumpCrisscross »

andrewstuart wrote: post #41

But without population growth there will be no economic growth, the economy will stall it will be an unmitigated disaster. Every country must grow as much as it possibly can and then keep growing much more than that.

> without population growth there will be no economic growth

This is not true. Productivity is the mediator between a constant population and economic growth. (The world economy has grown much faster than its population over the last 100 years. And the U.S. still out produces the more-populous India.)

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#130

Post by cynicalsecurity »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #80
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #64

Leaving the EU or ending free movement with EU countries leads to a significant increase in immigration from the third world, as Brexit showed.

The Swiss ruling class don’t have as much disdain for their populace. It will only end up that way if the Swiss people will it. A lot of the UK’s problems were a result of the EU being vindictive as well. The EU won’t act vindictively because they aren’t in the EU.

Vindictive how? That it refuses to let the Brits have their cake and eat it?
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