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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#11
post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

What is rational about this exactly? They share no borders with the countries most immigrants come from, they are moving the problem to Spain, Italy, Greece.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#12
post #3

So this is essentially a way to reduce immigration to the country? And if they get close to the cap they will "need to take measures, particularly in the areas of asylum and family reunification." Would be curious to learn more about why this is being proposed.

The people behind this are conservative politicians. They have done so a lot in the last 20 years or so and keep on trying, but the EU regularly stops their shenanigans.

For the most part the swiss already decided to try to cherry pick as much as possible. They know that if they want to limit movement, then the EU will also limit movement from swiss to other EU countries. And the swiss always disliked that, so they could not go through with it. You can also see that with the UK - they are out of the EU but suddenly want free movement and free trade. Some people can't decide what they want.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#13
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initiator party wants to get Switzerland out of Schengen and of the EU bilaterals - which will happen as a consequence if this passes. Like a Brexit, basically. Edit: but the CHexit will work just fine, because of the Swiss exceptionalism.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#14
This initiative is a trap. Essentially, it would allow for the termination of bilateral agreements with Europe. This is what the SVP has been trying to do for decades, and this initiative provides them with a convenient excuse. And it’s particularly ironic because the SVP has always opposed legislation promoting sustainability.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#15
post #10
post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

What's rational in the arbitrary number of 10 millions for no reason at allM

It is completely irrational. But the UDC knows it, pure manipulation of the masses.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

Imagine how crazy it is to call a population cap an act of "suicide."

Imagine how crazy it is to think "Switzerland out of Schengen" isn't.

It's a small, landlocked country, surrounded on all sides by Schengen nations, that until recently delegated air defense to the EU outside of their air force's office hours. https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/feb/19/swis...

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#18
post #3

So this is essentially a way to reduce immigration to the country? And if they get close to the cap they will "need to take measures, particularly in the areas of asylum and family reunification." Would be curious to learn more about why this is being proposed.

It's being proposed in order to maintain quality of life. No one wants to be overcrowded. This is a sane solution: collectively agree on the maximum tolerable population. Then it's down to individual responsibility to obey the norms of one's society. Edit: unless you're Swiss, your opinion is irrelevant. Swiss voters have a right to decide how they want to live. They're not beholden to EU laws; they can make their ow…

Except that it is not EU conform. And won't hold up anyway. Everyone knows this.

Some politicians want to market themselves here.

> Then it's down to individual responsibility to observe the norms of one's society.

That's ok, but Switzerland decided to also partake in many EU regulations, including free movement. They can't cherry-pick individual parts. If they don't want special relations to the EU then that's also fine but the benefits will be gone as well. The UK found this out quite quickly too.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#19
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initiator party wants to get Switzerland out of Schengen and of the EU bilaterals - which will happen as a consequence if this passes. Like a Brexit, basically. Edit: but the CHexit will work just fine, because of the Swiss exceptionalism.

Way worse than Brexit, as Switzerland is much smaller, landlocked and had no colonies or anything like that. This would be a suicide for the country. Just populism to mobilize the electorate.

This is only about the Schengen, Switzerland is not a part of the EU, and even before the Schengen, the borders between the EU and Switzerland weren't heavily controlled. I got in trouble at German airport for going by train from Lausanne to Milan, and then plane to Berlin, I had no entry step into the Schengen because they didn't bother doing that on trains (pre-Schengen).

Everything else is negotiated under separate treaties. This would revert Switzerland to pre-Schengen, which is sad, but it wouldn't be suicidal.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#20
post #2

This seems a much more rational approach than pure political agenda driven fear mongering campaigns against immigrants.

This is about Swiss - EU relations. Everyone understands that a yes vote means the Swiss equivalent of „exiting the EU“.

All Swiss-EU contracts contain a „Guillotine clause“ where if one contract is broken, all are immediately gone. The initiative explicitly requires breaking the freedom of movement contract, which immediately severs all other links to the EU.

This _is_ pure political agenda driven campaign using immigrants.

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